Completing Watcher's Keep before TOB?

24jel

Hi all-

I just completed Watcher's Keep in TOB. I'm not far into TOB yet, I have yet to defeat Yaga-Shura, but I was wondering. I understand that you beat Watcher's Keep before finishing BG2. Now, what I want to know is how? I barely defeated Demogorgon with basically just Minsc because he was the only one who had a +5 sword. Magic helped but was primarily used to take down his defences. Have I just missed the best weapons in BG2 or is there a different way to beat him?

element

i may be wrong but i think you can finish the keep without actualy fighting him

Shin

Iirc, spell protections aside you only need +3 weapons to damage Demogorgon. For someone who knows the game and what spells to use, he's not all that difficult in vanilla. Also, by the time you reach him you will have grabbed a whole lot of good items from the Keep even if you haven't started ToB yet.

ZanathKariashi

Demo needs +4, but there are plenty in the keep itself, as well as several in late-SoA or earlier, but tend to be class restricted unless they're found/crafted in chapter 6.

And most of the gear in mid to late Keep is easily better then anything found in SoA.

And yes, it's extremely easy to clear the whole keep in SoA before leaving chapter 2. But doing so utterly trivializes the rest of SoA/ToB because the stuff in there is just that good.


Unless you abuse a glitch to seal the keep AND fight Demogorgon, you actually get less overall xp by fighting him, rather then sealing the keep. (they're supposed to be mutually exclusive results).

blackchimes

How to overcome any obstacle in BG saga?

Cheese.

DreadKhan

blackchimes said:

How to overcome any obstacle in BG saga?

Cheese.

This must be why the devs decided to remove Minsc's quest... The one where you look for food for Boo. A +5 Pepperjack of Smiting.

24jel

Thanks for the tips. Demogorgon really sucked the hp out of everyone he attacks. Presumably, getting the most xp is to strengthen the seal, go with Demogorgon's proposal to betray the knights and then return to destroy him?

24jel

BTW: I never figured out what it is precisely that drains your hp in the battle once you are attacked by Demogorgon. Can anyone enlighten me?

atcDave

I've defeated Big D several times when visiting Watcher's Keep right after the SoA Underdark. I really don't think he's even the hardest fight in the game. (A few in the tower itself, like demons in an anti-magic zone) strike me as much harder fights.

But you know, the best course is not to fight him at all. Especially if you're playing a good-aligned party!

DreadKhan

Iirc, you want negative energy protection on whomever is tanking... But I can't recall if it helped vs his other drain, he has two different ones i think.

24jel

He has level drain.

Yeah, I play a good aligned party but didn't know what would happen if I fought him.

@atcDave: The demons in the anti-magic zone were surprisingly easy, but that may have been due to my high level characters (given that you went after the Underdark in SOA). Also, it is the first time I'm playing through the game so without knowing what is coming some fights may seeem harder then they actually are.

atcDave

24jel it seems every player, and really every party, has a slightly different experience on what fights are hard or easy. Its sometimes amusing when those differences are extreme.
The final fight on werewolf island is like that. The first time I played I blew right through it like it was nothing. Sometime later, I first read that many players considered it difficult. That really baffled me. Then on my third or fourth play through I had a party that had a devil of a time beating them. I even knew exactly what I was up against, but my party mix was just all wrong! Took me like five tries to beat that battle.
I have had parties that I knew shouldn't mess with Demagorgan, so they didn't!

24jel

actDave - thats a good point! My party should have stayed away but oh well. I remember the Werewolf fight vividly, though the demon in Ulgoth's Beard was much worse. It does give satisfaction once you've won a really tough battle (TOB gives plenty of satisfaction in that regard :P)

sarevok57

I have the patch/mod thingy that makes demogorgon harder ( or his original difficulty as intended they say) and I've beaten him with incredibly weak teams ( in terms of class and ability stats and such) and I don't do watchers keep until I finish off yaga-shura and then I go straight there and finish off watcher's keep, and it is true where if your party isn't power overwhelming or has the greatest of gear, he can be hard, but I always kill him because it yields the most XP that way ( plus not killing him is total wimpage (: ) I even remember one time I did watchers keep and completed it in chapter 3 or SoA, and I remember playing a monk because I basically solo'ed the whole mind flayer dungeon with him, but it is possible to do with a SoA team, maybe the tactics you used just weren't the best for that battle? ( what I do is I have all my melee'ers drink potions of absorbtion so demo gets a -10 penalty to hit on me, cast protection from energy on all my party members, remove fear, protection from evil 10' radius, summon 5 mordenkenin's swords, haste, hardiness on all melee fighters, protection from magical energy on all party memebers, and sometimes I have the melee'ers drink potions of storm giant str if their str isn't to hot, and yeah I defeat him just fine, about 3 or 4 whirlwinds from each melee'er and constant breaches from the mages and he falls eventually, plus those potions of superior healing really help for your melee'ers as well )

OYME

All you need to kill (ascension) demo is a mordy sword summoned across one end of the room to distract everyone (make sure it's in demo's line of sight) and a mage that prebuffs everyone (an elemental prince &/or a deva/planetar with improved haste is nice but not necessary) with improved haste. Then Summon demo & cast the following spells in this order: improved alacrity, true sight, 2 spell strikes and a breach. Then just have all your fighters beat on demo until he falls. You'll need a +4 or greater weapon to hit him though.