Thief questions

revan299s

Last few days I've been messing around with different kits

Starting a thief that I may want to dual as either a mage or a cleric
(not going multi because of weapon restrictions)

STR is important if its a melee thief or am I wrong?

as for CON is there any benefit for a thief to be above 16?

I would like to try the swashbuckler kit so would I be better dualing a mage for the touch spells? I would prefer cleric because I plan this to be a thief-only party just for fun.
(I don't think any NPCs are multi or can be dualed to cleric. I may need the healing/protection for this run lol)

also I heard INT needs to be a certain value for certain dialogue options true/false?

Thanks in advance!

OurQuestIsVain

STR is good regardless of your class so the higher the better, though I wouldn't front line with a thief, hit and fade is what you wanna do.

As for CON, there is no point in having it over 16. You may even consider starting off with 15 CON in anticipation of the tome that gives it +1 permanently. Although if you are one of the shorty races you will gain a benefit to your saving throws up to 18 CON.

Halflings are great cause they get benefits to saving throws for high CON and have great starting stats for thieving abilities, plus THAC0 bonus for sling (another great reason for having high STR). If you are thinking about a swashbuckler, I like elves for that for a bonus to their THAC0 in long swords. Although if you are dual classing you obviously don't have a choice for races.

If you are running all thieves you will probably wanna go cleric rather than mage beings that you can dual Imoen to mage pretty early. Of course you can pick up Tiax but that isn't until much later in the game. Skie and Safana both have WIS that are way too low to pump up with tomes and dual to cleric. Plus sanctuary offers an alternative to hiding in shadows as far as backstabbing opportunities.

INT won't effect anything at all in the game unfortunately. You can set it to 3 and get through the game perfectly fine as a thief. Personally, for RP reasons, I don't like setting my intelligence lower than 10 (which is average) How the hell could a character with 3 INT (which means he can barely talk) investigate the iron throne or figure out Saeravok's plot?

revan299s

Haha, good point on the INT. However both the CON and INT arguments are kind of moot since I just rolled a 99 for my attributes lol (really bugs me the game calls these abilities! lol)

Now, when to Dual, normally done around 6 or 7 But I believe a swashie get's bonus' every 5 levels. But if I wait till 10, it could be a long time till I get the thief abilities backs lol plus I can probably not reach max level with cleric. Starting to think a swashie was not a good idea with cleric lol But I feel locked in, since I rolled a 99 lol

CaptRory

If you wait to get to lvl 10 to Dual Class, you aren't doing it in Baldur's Gate. You'll have to do it next game.

Cleric is also not a good choice for a dual'd thief. For a Swashie, you probably want to dual to a Mage. OR you could just stay a Swashbuckler. They're pretty boss by the end of the series with the stacking bonuses to AC and such and Use Any Item at the end of the saga letting you wear any armor you want.

Time4Tiddy

Just a note, with the dexterity tome, Branwen can dual to thief. She can cap at 7 cleric/8 thief if you want to maximize her cleric levels. Just a thought, if you want an all thief party and want a strong cleric who isn't CHARNAME. Shar-Teel can dual to thief with no dex tome. Xzar could also dual to thief with the dex tome, but then you wouldn't have it for Branwen, and you already have plenty of thieves who can dual to mage (both Imoen and Safana).

revan299s

I planned it for Safana, but I thought Branwen starts at DEX 15?

Time4Tiddy

16

revan299s

Then the BG wiki is either in-accurate(it is a wiki lol) or they changed it for the EE lol

TJ_Hooker

revan299s said:

Then the BG wiki is either in-accurate(it is a wiki lol) or they changed it for the EE lol

It looks like the BG wiki mixed up her CON and DEX scores.

Time4Tiddy

Pretty sure the wiki is wrong.

revan299s

TJ_Hooker said:

revan299s said:

Then the BG wiki is either in-accurate(it is a wiki lol) or they changed it for the EE lol

It looks like the BG wiki mixed up her CON and DEX scores.

Ah okay, the fact she can be dual-ed to thief changes everything. I may actually dual as a mage now. However, this means someone from my initial party idea needs to leave

CHARNAME, Montaron, Imoen, Safana, Coran, and Tiax.

AlsoI just noticed something, why they ever gave Neera 17 DEX I will never know lol that would make her ideal for dualing except shes a half-elf and I'm not sure if a wild mage/thief is really a good thing lol

kansasbarbarian

Swashie is a pretty good frontliner for a thief you just can't backstab but since you are going to use an all thief party it is no big loss. Give him pips in scimitar and take you know who's away and you got some great weapons for your swashie.

Corvino

I'm not sure swashbucklers are as great on the frontlines as people are making out in BG1. They're fine once you get to level 10 and have weapon specialisation and at least 2 points in dual wield, but until then they don't hit hard enough and are a bit too squishy. They take a while to get going due to limited weapon proficiency points.

If you want a melee orientated thief in BG1 I'd recommend a fighter/thief multi over a swashbuckler. You lose the option to dual to a mage, but are a lot tougher in combat early on and get access to both sets of HLAs in the endgame.

It's worth stating that any dual needs minimum stats of 15 in their primary class attribute (Dex for thieves) and 17 in the class attribute being dualled to (so 17 int if you want to dual to mage).

Southpaw

I agree with @Corvino that Swashbuckler is much weaker in BG1 than in BG2. Especially because of the lack of weapon/style proficiencies. But still, a very good thief...a bit more "jack-of-all-trades" than the other thief kits. However it's still a very viable Thief. (Remember, that deep into ToB many of the toughest enemies are immune to backstab anyway)

Actually, many strategy guides I have seen advocate Swashie as the best kit for dualling into a cleric/mage. (even though, they usually did it in BG2 @10th level)
Why?
Swashie->Mage - you aren't going to front-line with this one a lot anyway. But the +hit and -AC bonuses help. Along with more weapons to choose from and thieving utility skills.

Swashie->Cleric - Clerics can use the +hit, -AC bonuses as everyone else. Most of cleric weapons can't backstab anyway (save for the staff, but I alone have RP problems reasoning a sneaky thief running around and trying to backstab people with a 2m/6ft long pole). Again, the Thieve's utility skills are awesome. Late-dualled Swashbuckler to Cleric can wield 2 warhammers with ease.

Southpaw

By the way, as we are in Thieve's thread...my 2 cents about building a good Swashbuckler in BGEE:

1) melee - choose a blade of your choice (I prefer Scimitars or Long Swords) and put 2 pips in at creation...then get a buckler (preferrably Kiel's buckler in Friendly Arm Inn). Afterwards dump every other pip into dual. Don't dual-wield until you get 2 pips in dual-wielding. Don't expect your thief to be the biggest badass there is. Yet. But he will hold his ground. (Tip-traps in BG1 are lethal)
2) versatile - as you will get only 4 points to spend on weapon proficiencies in whole BGEE, put 2 into a blade and 2 into Short Bows. You'll probably spend more time with the +1 Short bow than in melee, but your THAC0 will be better than THAC0 of other, lowly thieves. And you can get any other specialisation in BG2EE. Better fighting capabilities, plus all the thief skill points as a vanilla thief. Did I mention traps?

Dreadnaught

does a mutliclassed Fighter/theif get the 3 slots in the dual wielding skill?

Southpaw

@Dreadnaught - yes. He is just restricted to max 2* in any weapon.

Dreadnaught

Good it couldn't tell after it stopped at 2 slots when I created my character. Is the swashbucler better than the Fighter/thief?

CaptRory

Its sort of on par with a fighter/thief. They each have their own advantages but are comparable. Eventually I think the Swashbuckler will overtake the multiclass, and since the Swashie is single classed you can dual what is basicly a fighter/thief into a mage and get a dual classed character with three classes in it. XD

ZanathKariashi

Early on a F/T is better, due to BS allowing them to cram a lot of attacks into a single attack, but becomes pretty much useless in late SoA/ToB, at which point the Swashy's stacking bonuses get high enough to turn them into a melee powerful house with full thief utility. A multi is probably better since you're playing your chosen class from day 1, where as a Dual has to spend all of BG1 as something, have down time, and then get a narrow band of mid to late SoA where they're better before the swashy blows them away.

Multi F/T > Swashy > Dual F/T

Personally, I feel a plain thief adds more to a mage then a swash does. Swashy brings a tiny bit of AC, and some hit/damage...vs 128+ damage BSs at the start (START!) of BG2 a 9/10 thief/mage dual could've done. (I've chunked Mencar Pebblecrusher in 1 BS, fresh out of the prelude before).