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Graphic Improvements

From the first day BG:EE was announced, I always felt that the new areas & UI of Baldur's Gate (EE) were a bit "off". They looked ok, but didn't have the same "ambience" as the old areas. At first I waved it away thinking I was just being nostalgic by preferring the older areas, but by looking at the new BG2 areas, I think I now know what's "wrong".

The new areas are blurry. They lack "texture" and "grit". I don't want to come across as a grumpy old nitpicker or anything, but this is just how I feel about the new areas.

Compare for example
http://baldursgate.com/images/neera/screenshot01.jpg and http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2012/344/reviews/663933_20121210_screen005.jpg

One could say that the new neera area definitely has better trees, but at the same time the grass is plain flat. In the old areas, you can see literally individual blades of grass, yet in the new areas grass is a smudgy green blob. It lacks texture.

So I opened photoshop and applied some filters to the screenshot of one of the new BG2 areas.
http://baldursgateii.com/images/screens/screen11.jpg
https://forums.beamdog.com/uploads/FileUpload/8e/4c3bb38eeb04c737c1ac164e0b83ba.jpg
(Open in new tabs to easily switch between images)

First, to be clear, it's *just* a photoshop filter, nothing advanced (I'm a photoshop novice). My goal is *not* to make it look better, but to make it look more like the old areas. I also understand the devs can't simply apply a filter to all their art assets to "fix" the problem.

One of the things to notice in the photoshoped picture is the textured version of the UI. Despite being higher-resolution than the unenhanced UI, I always felt the new UI didn't have as much texture to it as the old one.

So... thoughts? Is my analysis correct?
bg2.jpg 532.8K

Comments

  • GaveGave Member Posts: 66
    A sharpening filter +50% and a monochromatic additive noise filter +1% does wonders already. I assume they could further refine sharpening to reduce the blurry/dull surfaces.

    The trees are much better in the new renders tho, they just need some tweakery I guess.
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    @Alkalurops I couldn't agree more. The terrain, specifically, looks blurry compared to the original area renders. I don't have the graphical vocabulary that you and @Gave do, but I agree with your assessment of the new areas. I chalked it up to lower resolution textures on the 3D models used to render the maps, but perhaps its a noise / saturation / contrast issue. I also agree that the new trees are much, much improved over the old.

    This is especially obvious in the new snow areas, and the caves associated with Neera's quest. I can't find the cave screenshots on the baldursgate.com site right now, but they do have some of the snow.

    image

    Doesn't that look like low resolution textures stretched over some geometry? Since they're rendering all these to 2d maps anyway, why not bake in textures of the appropriate resolution. Not like the gpu has to pump more triangles or use more vRAM.

    @Cuv and @CamDawg just cuz.

  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    Have to agree. The new areas in BGEE really stood out, and not in a good way.
  • AlkaluropsAlkalurops Member Posts: 269
    edited September 2013
    I think there are 2 issues. Your observation seems to be correct: they're using low-resolution textures (or at least, stretching it over large patches of geometry). If that's not the case, they are using a bad renderer or bad rendering settings. Even the snow doesn't look detailed enough.

    That said, I think there's also a second (less urgent) problem: they need to add more geometry to the scene. To go back to my grass example: you can see blades of high grass near rocks. I don't know if that's because they hand-painted it afterwards or because the source art had grass geometry in the scenes, but in either case: the new areas are lacking this kind of detail.

    http://timenerdworld.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/icewind-dale-wyrms-tooth.jpg
    There's much more geometry and texturing going on in that scene. The snow isn't just snow, there's snow, ice fragments, frozen dirt, stone, all blending together on the same ground. Admittedly, Wyrm's Tooth is an outstanding piece of art that's hard to match, but still...

    One thing that made IE games look so good was that they could pre-render scenes that were so detailed even current-gen hardware would explode trying to run it in real-time. Yes, we would lose the "3D" aspect, but in return we would get great graphics running on minimal hardware.

    These issues can't simply be solved in photoshop, they need to be addressed *before* rendering the final image. Since they still have all the source material (I hope...) I sincerely hope they will consider refining their art.
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    Thanks for the reply @Alkalurops. What really gets me is that I've been bringing this issue up since before BG:EE was released and haven't gotten any acknowledgement that it's an issue. They respond to the same question asked 10 different ways in the "ask us anything" thread, but don't reply to some legitimate concerns. I hope they don't see this kind of feedback as an attack, but rather a pointing out of an incongruity. I would love nothing more than the areas re-rendered without these blurry assets. Then, I could look at the new maps and think they were part of the original '98/01 releases and discuss the quality of the new material with exuberance. Unfortunately, they stand out in an unflattering manner.

    I support the EE games, because we need a market for this kind of game and I fundamentally support what Beamdog is doing. I can't help but wish that I didn't have to apply so many caveats when I discussed the graphical fidelity of their new content though (the 1PP stuff is great, was using it prior to EE...).

    Again, @CamDawg because he's shown an intellectual honesty that is rare amongst developers.
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    Haha. Well, while not quite the response I was looking for.. I appreciate your attention @CamDawg. Are we taking crazy pills here, or do you see the same issue that we're bitching about?
  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    edited September 2013
    @agris We see it. :) Blurry textures suck. It's something we'll look into.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    agris said:

    Haha. Well, while not quite the response I was looking for.. I appreciate your attention @CamDawg. Are we taking crazy pills here, or do you see the same issue that we're bitching about?

    Well, when you say crazy things like
    agris said:

    Again, @CamDawg because he's shown an intellectual honesty that is rare amongst developers.

    I feel the need for silliness so that folks don't take me too seriously. The blueclear gradient means I have to be a little too careful. :)

  • PorphyraPorphyra Member Posts: 10
    I agree about the Blurriness, when I first saw Adoy's enclave I was shocked, it made it feel like a mod that had been tacked on to BG rather than a part of the game. Hopefully it is something they will take up in the next patch.
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    Have you guys managed to avoid this problem with the new BG2EE areas, or are they going to blurry too?
  • Blakes7Blakes7 Member Posts: 83
    Forgive me if I'm being dense but, does this mean that you are considering improvements to the new area graphics? Would you consider improving the trees and such for the old area graphics?
  • GaveGave Member Posts: 66
    Blakes7 said:

    Forgive me if I'm being dense but, does this mean that you are considering improvements to the new area graphics? Would you consider improving the trees and such for the old area graphics?

    Come on @CamDawg, show him the improved trees.

  • LiamEslerLiamEsler Member Posts: 1,859
    @CamDawg's new trees are a modern marvel. We're all extremely thankful for the opportunity to tap into his extensive art history knowledge and unparalleled production techniques.
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    I find @CamDawg's MountainRender(TM) technology most impressive...
  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 485
    Fixing stuff like is trivial but it means everybody have to download all changed area graphics, which makes a huge patch.

    image
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    @viader That is a really nice looking interior. Your mod looks great, I just wish I spoke Polish.
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    Bercon said:

    Fixing stuff like is trivial but it means everybody have to download all changed area graphics, which makes a huge patch.

    The whole BGEE is about 1.85 gigs. Even if you had to re-download the whole game, which you most likely wouldn't, it wouldn't be all that big of a download by modern standards. Even if you only had 2Mbps connection it wouldn't take more than about 2.5 hours.

    Not to mention how silly it would be to not fix something like this because of download size in the first place...
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