Which class should I take?

true_shinken

Hey, guys. I'm going to start a new BGEE run preparing for BGEE2. I plan on using all the new NPCs + Imoen in the next game (so, Neera, Rasaad, Dorn, Hexxak and Imoen; I will probably drop Dorn for Sarevok when I get to ToB, though).
I'm just thinking... which class should I take? That setup needs divine magic, so I'm considering a Ranger/Cleric elf, but that's what I used in my last BG1 playthrough (the last one before EE, that is). I like to use my protagonist as a dual wielding melee character, but that just locks me further into Ranger/Cleric.

Any suggestions on what I should do? Is it possible to start as a Swashbuckler then dual to Cleric, as a human? Please help!

terzaerian

You should be able to dual as any prestige class (sans Barbarian or Sorceror) to any class the character qualifies for through DC'ing. That said, your second class will always be the generic version of the class - no further specialization is possible.

EDIT: This remains true even if your base class is the generic version of that class; so if you want prestige class bonuses, you need to make sure to take the prestige as the first class at character creation.

elminster

Fighter / Cleric (or berserker level 9/cleric) would be a good choice too in this case.

elminster

Ohh and fyi cleric/rangers can only be half-elf. Yes you can start off as a swashbuckler and dual into a cleric.

Southpaw

a) yes it is possible to dual a Swashbuckler to a Cleric. if you'd need a Cleric in BGEE, I'd dual around lvl 6-7. If you'd need the Cleric in BG2EE only (and can get another Cleric in BGEE), dual at lvl 10. You will get better proficiencies and some +hit/-AC bonuses + useful utility skills. That's the theory. This exact build was a bit more dissected in another recent thread. Give it a look. (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/20907/thief-questions) Also, look here - http://gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/strategies/swashbucklercleric.php
To be honest - I don't like the Cleric/Thief multi/dual class. I don't think it synergizes together well. (My own opinion, some people may disagree)

b) I wouldn't necessarily dwell on having a Thief if you want to use Imoen+Hexxat. Even though Hexxat will probably be an Assassin or heavily invested into hiding and not utility skills, Imoen can be a good Thief. And until you get Imoen, you can use Yoshimo or Jan for thieving abilities.

c) If you like to get a dual-wielding Cleric-type and don't plan on using Anomen, I'd then probably think about getting a F/C multiclass or a F->C dual-class. Preferrably a Berserker, dualled to a Cleric around lvl 7 (to become powerful in BGEE) or later, if you'd dual in BG2EE. Fighters will still get 6 * for weapon proficiencies by level 7 in BGEE (and +1/2 APR at level 7).
Even though - the Cleric kits aren't bad either. Just the F/C is much more powerful in melee.

Awong124

In my experience, you never really need a divine spell caster. I don't know what difficulty you play on, but I play on core and there are more than enough potions in the game for healing (in BGEE at least), and buff spells help but I don't find them absolutely necessary. I would only play a divine spell casting class if you think it'll be fun for you.

true_shinken

Awong124 said:

In my experience, you never really need a divine spell caster. I don't know what difficulty you play on, but I play on core and there are more than enough potions in the game for healing (in BGEE at least), and buff spells help but I don't find them absolutely necessary. I would only play a divine spell casting class if you think it'll be fun for you.

I could try playing a Ranger (Stalker?) and see if I don't die to much, I guess.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I considered Swashbuckler->Cleric mainly because Swashbucklers get some misc attack/AC bonuses and three pips in dua wield, but it's not worth it if I need to stick to Thief weapons. Fighter->Cleric could work, but I'm not a fan of any of the Fighter kits. I'm now torn between single class Ranger (maybe ellf Stalker) and multiclass Ranger/Cleric.

Schneidend

I think you should go with Stalker. It's a cool kit, and the most versatile of the Ranger classes. Dual-wielding, nice spells, backstab, and an excuse to use the neat-but-not-ideal-for-everybody leather armors in BG2.

Corvino

I agree with @elminster that some flavour of fighter/divine spellcaster would probably be best. The party you suggest only really has Dorn as a frontliner initially and does lack divine spellpower. Eventually Rasaad will do fine in melee but he'll be squishy for the first part of the game.

A Dwarf Fighter/Cleric, Half-elf Ranger/Cleric or Human Berserker->Cleric/Druid would all fit the bill nicely, and all have the potential to become very powerful indeed.

Southpaw

@true_shinken - Stalker is fun. And useful, especially because he can backstab like Thieves and still fight reasonably well. I think they can't be dual-classed to a Cleric. Just a vanilla Ranger can. (In case you are sticking with the Cleric idea)

Berserker dualled to Cleric, dual-wielding hammers or flails (FoA) can be an un-killable behemoth in melee fights. (The Berserker's berserk immunities are a godsend+buffs of the Cleric)


...truth is, that you don't need a divine caster, but everything is much harder if you don't have one. (I play on Hard difficulty)

Awong124

Southpaw said:

...truth is, that you don't need a divine caster, but everything is much harder if you don't have one. (I play on Hard difficulty)

I've never played on hard difficulty, so I don't doubt what you say. But if you play on normal or core, it's probably easier to have an extra warrior or mage to just mow down your enemies quickly.

Southpaw

Well, the enemies just hit 50% harder. Nothing really exhilarating, but buff spells and after-combat healing help a lot.

Awong124

Southpaw said:

Well, the enemies just hit 50% harder. Nothing really exhilarating, but buff spells and after-combat healing help a lot.

Yeah, so while there are enough healing potions for core, there probably isn't enough for hard, and you'd need a Cleric to make up for it.

elminster

Southpaw said:

@true_shinken - Stalker is fun. And useful, especially because he can backstab like Thieves and still fight reasonably well. I think they can't be dual-classed to a Cleric. Just a vanilla Ranger can. (In case you are sticking with the Cleric idea)

Pretty certain that they fixed that in BGEE. You should now be able to dual class from a Stalker to a cleric.

kamuizin

Can i suggest something i will do? Use the new kits !

make a run with an Dwarven Defender, one with an dragon disciple, another with a shadowdancer, other with the 2 new monk kits and another with the blackguard kit.

BG2:EE can/should probally introduce even a new kit (that would need to be adapted to BG:EE later) so there's pleny of new stuff to work around !

true_shinken

Well, new kits in BG2 won't help me much, since I'll start this from BG1 ^^
Initially I was just going to get my current BG1 character, a half-elf Blade, but with Imoen and Neera I'll already have more than enough arcane power.

I think I'll try a Stalker ^^ I always liked Valygar.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Southpaw

elminster said:

Southpaw said:

@true_shinken - Stalker is fun. And useful, especially because he can backstab like Thieves and still fight reasonably well. I think they can't be dual-classed to a Cleric. Just a vanilla Ranger can. (In case you are sticking with the Cleric idea)

Pretty certain that they fixed that in BGEE. You should now be able to dual class from a Stalker to a cleric.

Have they? Awesome.
But to dual-class a Stalker to a Cleric does not make sense. You can't backstab (THE one reason why to actually choose a Stalker) with Cleric weapons, save the Staff. That would also mean to forego THE other reason to choose a Ranger - to get 2 pips in dual-wielding for free.

Stalkers are cool just the way the are.

Lord_Tansheron

Clerics can totally dual-wield. Also, the best weapons to backstab with are, in fact, staves. Both in BG1 and BG2.

elminster

Southpaw said:

elminster said:

Southpaw said:

@true_shinken - Stalker is fun. And useful, especially because he can backstab like Thieves and still fight reasonably well. I think they can't be dual-classed to a Cleric. Just a vanilla Ranger can. (In case you are sticking with the Cleric idea)

Pretty certain that they fixed that in BGEE. You should now be able to dual class from a Stalker to a cleric.

Have they? Awesome.
But to dual-class a Stalker to a Cleric does not make sense. You can't backstab (THE one reason why to actually choose a Stalker) with Cleric weapons, save the Staff. That would also mean to forego THE other reason to choose a Ranger - to get 2 pips in dual-wielding for free.

Stalkers are cool just the way the are.

Can't thieves use clubs? Shouldn't you be able to use a club as your main weapon and still backstab? Alternatively isn't there the staff-mace?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

true_shinken

Now I'm considering dualing my Stalkter to a Cleric. Decisions, decisions...

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Southpaw

elminster said:

Southpaw said:

elminster said:

Southpaw said:

@true_shinken - Stalker is fun. And useful, especially because he can backstab like Thieves and still fight reasonably well. I think they can't be dual-classed to a Cleric. Just a vanilla Ranger can. (In case you are sticking with the Cleric idea)

Pretty certain that they fixed that in BGEE. You should now be able to dual class from a Stalker to a cleric.

Have they? Awesome.
But to dual-class a Stalker to a Cleric does not make sense. You can't backstab (THE one reason why to actually choose a Stalker) with Cleric weapons, save the Staff. That would also mean to forego THE other reason to choose a Ranger - to get 2 pips in dual-wielding for free.

Stalkers are cool just the way the are.

Can't thieves use clubs? Shouldn't you be able to use a club as your main weapon and still backstab? Alternatively isn't there the staff-mace?

Think they can. And that's about the only weapon they can use to backstab once turning a Cleric. Not impossible, it just does not fit a Stalker in my opinion.

OzzyBotkins

I just recently finished up with a duel Berserkerl/Cleric dueled at level 6. use the cann party and worked out pretty good

Madhax

true_shinken said:

Well, new kits in BG2 won't help me much, since I'll start this from BG1 ^^
Initially I was just going to get my current BG1 character, a half-elf Blade, but with Imoen and Neera I'll already have more than enough arcane power.

I think I'll try a Stalker ^^ I always liked Valygar.

The new kits are in BGEE too. I've got a Dragon Disciple going right now.

true_shinken

Madhax said:

true_shinken said:

Well, new kits in BG2 won't help me much, since I'll start this from BG1 ^^
Initially I was just going to get my current BG1 character, a half-elf Blade, but with Imoen and Neera I'll already have more than enough arcane power.

I think I'll try a Stalker ^^ I always liked Valygar.

The new kits are in BGEE too. I've got a Dragon Disciple going right now.

Oh, I thought you meant new NEW kits. Sorry.

Nic_Mercy

true_shinken said:

Hey, guys. I'm going to start a new BGEE run preparing for BGEE2. I plan on using all the new NPCs + Imoen in the next game (so, Neera, Rasaad, Dorn, Hexxak and Imoen; I will probably drop Dorn for Sarevok when I get to ToB, though).
I'm just thinking... which class should I take? That setup needs divine magic, so I'm considering a Ranger/Cleric elf, but that's what I used in my last BG1 playthrough (the last one before EE, that is). I like to use my protagonist as a dual wielding melee character, but that just locks me further into Ranger/Cleric.

Any suggestions on what I should do? Is it possible to start as a Swashbuckler then dual to Cleric, as a human? Please help!

You could try a Priest of Lathander single class kit cleric. You can get up to 3 apr dual wielding and beastly stats/thac0 with your spell buffs and the boon of Lathander kit ability. Get yourself a flail of ages and a runehammer and go to town

true_shinken

I thought single class Clerics couldn't get more than one pip in weapon styles.

Nic_Mercy

true_shinken said:

I thought single class Clerics couldn't get more than one pip in weapon styles.

They can't... but 1apr normally + 1 off hand attack + 1 apr from the Boon of Lathander special ability = 3 attacks per round. That plus the massive thac0 bonuses from spell buffs makes them quite formidable. The buffs make up for the penalties from not being able to put more than 1 pip in two weapon fighting.

true_shinken

Nic_Mercy said:

They can't... but 1apr normally + 1 off hand attack + 1 apr from the Boon of Lathander special ability = 3 attacks per round. That plus the massive thac0 bonuses from spell buffs makes them quite formidable.

Wouldn't those attacks be under heavy penalties, though?