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Tweaking/Adding HLA's for BG2EE

Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 420
edited September 2013 in Feature Requests
Based on this post from Dee:
Dee said:

gholam said:

Will you make changes to the epic abilities?

So far as I know, the high-level abilities have not been changed. That's not to say we won't examine them later on, but for now they'll work the same way they did in the original.
In case the devs look at HLA's in the future... it may be worth taking a hard look at some of the abilities that just have no practical use at the levels you'll get them at.

Like warrior ones that let you insta kill mobs of lvl 12 or 10 or less... Cause a) the level you can take that ability you won't be fighting such low level mobs and b) if for some reason you did encounter such mobs, you'll mostly like already chunk them off the bat at those levels so why waste an HLA pick on such a redundant ability.

Now if the stronger version that insta kills things lvl 12 or less forced a save or die on anything ABOVE lvl 12 then it MIGHT be worth taking.

The magic resistance HLA would be much more desirable if it stacked instead of replaced existing magic resistance from items/buffs.

The War Cry HLA is basically just the lvl 2 mage spell Horror... why waste a pick on that? You could just as easily by a wand to do the same thing.

Options for spell casters might include adding more of the "this HLA gives you a spell slot" type selection for more levels and/or make them takeable multiple times. I'd shy away from adding new spells because the highest level caster spellbooks are already bloated with HLA spells but more spell slots are almost always welcome.

Spellcasters might also enjoy HLA's that produce magical items/consumables much like the Thief and Bard enjoy (which makes sense since mages and clerics tend to be the people who actually make most magical items).

Comments

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    About the only ones I have issue with are....

    Thief -

    UAI (and it's follow-up skills) should be elusive to vanilla thieves

    WWA exclusive to Swashy (as current)

    All epic traps exclusive to Bounty Hunters

    Assassination unique to Assassins.

    Bard -

    UAI (and it's follow-up skills) unique to the vanilla Bard

    Epic Bard Song unique to the Skald

    WWA Unique to the Blade

    .....

    That's all I can think of related to direct HLA. Though Mages and cleric/Druids need to their missing 10th/Quest(8th) slots added, instead of just cramming the 10th/quest spells into 9th/7th level.


    That's about it. The rest of the abilities are pretty decent, imo. Some aren't efficient from a power-gaming standpoint, but this game was never meant for powergaming anyway. And GDB is GROSSLY underestimated, since 12 and under accounts for over 92% of non-unique enemies in the game.
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 420
    I'm not sure the devs will nerf things as far as exclusivity goes... This topic is more about making things that don't work useful and maybe adding more options to give more varied development.

    GDB is not underestimated at all. It's basically worthless. The level you get it at you're not fighting mobs of lvl 12 and below... and if for some reason you were able to find some... why would you need to use an HLA to kill them when with your level and equipment alone you're going to probably chunk them anyways?
  • karl_maulderkarl_maulder Member Posts: 133
    edited September 2013
    Greater Deathblow is fantastic! A dualwielding and hasted(improved) warrior(10 attacks) absolutely wreaks havoc in ToB. Pretty much all enemies in ToB besides the obvious ones(Bosses) are 12th level or lower, so you would be crazy not picking this feat.
    Nic_Mercy said:

    GDB is not underestimated at all. It's basically worthless. The level you get it at you're not fighting mobs of lvl 12 and below...

    Mindflayers, beholders, drows, duergars and umberhulks are all level 12 or lower!
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 420
    edited September 2013

    Greater Deathblow is fantastic! A dualwielding and hasted(improved) warrior(10 attacks) absolutely wreaks havoc in ToB. Pretty much all enemies in ToB besides the obvious ones(Bosses) are 12th level or lower, so you would be crazy not picking this feat.

    Nic_Mercy said:

    GDB is not underestimated at all. It's basically worthless. The level you get it at you're not fighting mobs of lvl 12 and below...

    Mindflayers, beholders, drows, duergars and umberhulks are all level 12 or lower!
    Where exactly in TOB content are we actually fighting these mobs that are level 12 and below... why would we be fighting such low lvl mobs when we're in our 20's or 30's? And if for some reason such low lvl mobs are appearing... why aren't you chunking them without this ability?
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited September 2013
    Basically everything without a unique name is 12 or under, unless it's a generic enemy that is known to have higher then 12 HD. And while you can kill them quickly, you are not one shotting them, unless you're a pure Kensai, and even they have trouble doing it consistently, mostly 2 shotting everything. Meaning they can kill about 5-6 enemies a round at 10 attacks. A IH'd dart/tuigan bow wielding warrior with GM could hit 10 attacks under IH and just mow down 10 enemies effortlessly per round from a distance.


    Because that's not how 2nd edition works. You've got a 3rd edition mind set where everything scales....it doesn't in 2nd. Monsters have a set amount of HD for what they are, though their actual HP total might be a bit variable (not in BG though). Even a 3 HD monster can potentially take 2 hits to kill with a BiS power-gamed max-level character. 12 HD monsters will generally have around 90-ish HP on average and aren't something you're gonna be chunking easily.

    Most of the new enemies you fight in SoA are around 5-8, with a few 10's towards the end. In BG1, most of them are 1-4, with a smattering of 6's thrown in. Which is kind of jarring since Greywolf is lvl 8 if memory serves in BG1, making him stronger then most of the misc creatures you'll fight in the whole game, but dies MUCH easier then an ogre who is almost 1/3 his level.


    I mean literally...you can beat all of BG2 without every going above BG1's level cap. Your gear and tactics just make so much more difference, since by 10, most classes have largely plateau'd, with only 1 or two more bonuses left to give that while nice, pale in comparison to the grow you made during those first 10 levels.
  • AntonAnton Member, Moderator, Mobile Tester Posts: 513
    edited September 2013
    In case of monk it would be great to use HLAs from Oversight Mod. Basically they are already in game -> used by Balthazar
    Anton said:

    That's right, Oversight! I totally forget how that mod with awesome HLA for monks is called. Thanks @Shrimp.
    [spoiler=Monk High Level Abilities]This component will give monks their own set of High Level Abilities instead, most of which should be quite familiar to anyone who has played through Throne of Bhaal before.

    Shadowless Kick
    This kick throws the target back, knocks the target unconscious, and deals 4d8 points of damage.

    Tiger Strike
    A more powerful form of Shadowless Kick, this power ensures every blow for the next round is a critical hit. In addition, every blow for the next two rounds throws the target back and knocks the target unconscious.
    Prerequisite: Shadowless Kick.

    Dragon Fist
    With a blow, the monk strips away the magical protections of the target.

    Faster Than The Eye
    By concentrating briefly on another area within 4000 feet, the monk can instantly transport herself there.
    Prerequisite: Feet of the Wind.

    Flip Resistances
    The monk's magic resistance converts into physical damage resistance for a number of rounds equal to twice the monk's level. The monk also becomes immune to backstab for the same duration.

    Solar Stance
    Solar Stance renders nearby enemies more vulnerable, reducing the saving throws of any within 60 feet of the monk by 4. It creates a cloud of glittering golden particles that fill the air for twenty feet around the monk, revealing invisible creatures. All enemies in the cloud must roll a successful saving throw vs. spell or be blinded (-4 to attack rolls, saving throws, and Armor Class) until the dust fades, after 4 rounds. Also, a blast of fire emanates from the monk, scorching and throwing back everyone in a 30-foot radius, though the stance protects the monk from the flames.
    Prerequisite: Tiger Strike.

    Lunar Stance
    A monk who strikes this stance gains a +5 bonus to Saving Throws vs. Death, a + 2 bonus to luck, and becomes immune to Slay, Imprisonment, Petrification, Level Drain, Disintegrate, and Time Stop. The duration of this power is four rounds.
    Prerequisite: Solar Stance.

    Shadow Stance
    This stance causes the monk to instantly become both invisible, as per the spell Improved Invisibility, and immune to divination spells such as True Seeing. This power lasts for 23 rounds.
    Prerequisite: Lunar Stance.

    Feet of the Wind
    Each time this ability is chosen, it greatly and permanently increases the monk's movement rate.

    Second Wind
    By concentrating briefly, the monk can shrug off even the worst of wounds, once per day. The effect of this power is to fully heal the monk instantly.
    Prerequisite: Flip Resistances.

    Stunning Blow
    The monk has one more use of the Stunning Blow ability per day.

    Quivering Palm
    The monk has one more use of the Quivering Palm ability per day.[/spoiler]

    Too bad, there is no mod's author, @Kish, here.

  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    edited September 2013
    A mod called TOB: Refinements has some really nice new HLA tables, with completely new abilities. And the best thing about it is that every class gets their own unique abilities and even the different kits get at least one unique ability to set them apart from the base class and other kits, that includes the different mage schools, making them actually unique and fun to try out. And actually even multi-classes got one ore two unique abilities.

    I would never even play BG2 past lvl 20 without this anymore, so as soon as BG2EE comes out implementing the HLA part of Refinements is the first thing I'll do after installing.
    Post edited by dib on
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 420
    edited September 2013
    dib said:

    A mod called TOB: Refinements has some really nice new HLA tables, with completely new abilities. And the best thing about it is that every class gets their own unique abilities and even the different kits get at least one unique ability to set them apart from the base class and other kits, that includes the different mage schools, making them actually unique and fun to try out. And actually even multi-classes got one ore two unique abilities.

    I would never even play BG2 past lvl 20 without this anymore, so as soon as BG2EE comes out implementing the HLA part of Refinements is the first thing I'll do after installing.

    I'll have to check that out! Assuming I can find it... most links for it seem dead...
  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 420
    dib said:
    Much obliged!
  • ShrimpShrimp Member Posts: 142
    I've been using Refinements in my last games, too, and I like it quite a lot. I still prefer Oversight's monk HLA (Refinements super regen is pretty overpowered really) and Rogue Rebalancing for thieves' ones, but the other tables are really nice (especially the "each kit get its own HLA" bit, which RR does as well).
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