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Dragon Disciple Alteration, letting us choose the color

Is there any chance at all that we could alter the Red Dragon Disciple so that we can choose our dragon color the same way that the PnP dragon disciple lets us? Even if it meant making a separate kit for each color would work, after all, there's a separate kit for each specialist mage. What it would likely come down to is changing what element the character becomes resistant (and eventually immune to) and changing the element of the breath weapon. PnP has the shape of the breath weapon changing as well but last time I checked all dragons in BG2:ToB have the same area of effect.

While the PnP dragon disciple wasn't alignment locked you could also theoretically alignment lock the various colors as well.

Comments

  • Perhaps also add the following HLA for Dragon Disciples: Shapechange - Adult Dragon (Not as big as Firkraag or the other dragons, but still impressive)
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 388

    Perhaps also add the following HLA for Dragon Disciples: Shapechange - Adult Dragon (Not as big as Firkraag or the other dragons, but still impressive)

    I find this both terrible and awesome at the same time. But I think that the way HLA are set up prevents this from being exclusive to dragon disciples. I asked a similar question at one point and I think was told it couldn't happen.

  • elementelement Member Posts: 833
    yes for multiple dragon disciple colours id very much like to see that
  • MERLANCEMERLANCE Member Posts: 421
    You don't need a dragon disciple for every dragon, but one for each elemental damage type (fire, acid, cold, electricity) would be reasonable. That being said, fire is the most common damage type. meteor swarm, Just look at the spells such a sorcerer would get. The best electric is Chain Lightning at 6. The best cold is Cone of Cold at level 5, and the best acid spell is... what, acid arrow at level 2?
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited September 2013
    HLA can be class specific. Though seeing as how a Dragon Disciple can NEVER do that in any (official DnD) media, I'd be against it. (Pathfinder is a spiritual successor to 3.5, rather then true DnD).

    The pick your own element thing though is legit, though I'm still leery of showing ANY support to non-2nd edition material.

    (core monks, sorcerers, and barbarians are still 2nd edition, even if they're clearly more inspired by the 3rd edition versions...well..actually...now that I think about it...only the sorcerer really is (the 2nd edition sorcerer is a mage kit, instead of a separate class in 2nd edition). The Barbarian and Monk are damn close to their 2nd Edition versions, with just biowares stupid design choices making them different (the barbarian being extremely close, with only their rage being wrong (Sets str to 18/00 and gives them immunity to charm, sleep, command, morale break, and +4 resistance to hold/paralysis for 5 rounds. Will block 1 failed fear save, but shakes them out of their rage early).
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 388
    edited September 2013

    HLA can be class specific. Though seeing as how a Dragon Disciple can NEVER do that in any media, I'd be against it.

    The pick your own element thing though is legit, though I'm still leery of showing ANY support to non-2nd edition material.

    The pathfinder version of Dragon Disciple can turn into a dragon, although this probably means little as Pathfinder is essentially a buffed up version of 3rd. I believe people call it '3.75'. I call it '3rd Edition with benefits'.

    I was given a different impression about HLA. In that case I would think this to be an interesting ability for a dragon disciple but it would likely require them to make new dragon models and would require TONS of testing to make sure you don't get stuck in hallways too small for dragons.

    To tell you the truth I also am leery of non-2nd edition material. I would rather see them add NPCs or quests that uses the existing material that they already DON'T use. I mean, we have a ton of kits and very few of them are used by NPCs and we have numerous races but they seem to be mostly humans. I'm not a 2nd-edition guru but I will say that if they are going to add more kits or races then it should be based on 2nd-edition, not 3rd and beyond.

    And if one more person says 'Dragonborn' I'm going to punch them in the throat.

    Oh yeah, and THIS:
    MERLANCE said:

    You don't need a dragon disciple for every dragon, but one for each elemental damage type (fire, acid, cold, electricity) would be reasonable. That being said, fire is the most common damage type. meteor swarm, Just look at the spells such a sorcerer would get. The best electric is Chain Lightning at 6. The best cold is Cone of Cold at level 5, and the best acid spell is... what, acid arrow at level 2?

    I would like to see more spells that utilize more elements added to the game.

    Also, I am looking for the base dragon colors: Black, Blue, Green, Red, White, Brass, Bronze, Copper, Gold, and Silver. You know, the ones that the original Dragon Disciple had access to. From a mechanical standpoint it will only influence what element we want to be immune to but it matters somewhat from a role-playing standpoint and could serve as a beginning for some additional quests revolving around dragons.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Yeah, they haven't even scratched the surface of 2nd edition material. Mages and clerics don't even have any actual kits yet.

    But I think the main issue is, due to Bioware F'ing up all the current kits with either grossly overpowered or underpowered mechanics they probably aren't sure it's worth the effort of trying to adapt them, where as 3rd edition prestige classes are already broken and not meant to be used as base classes, making them fit right in with the other overpowered garbage.
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 388

    Yeah, they haven't even scratched the surface of 2nd edition material. Mages and clerics don't even have any actual kits yet.

    But I think the main issue is, due to Bioware F'ing up all the current kits with either grossly overpowered or underpowered mechanics they probably aren't sure it's worth the effort of trying to adapt them, where as 3rd edition prestige classes are already broken and not meant to be used as base classes, making them fit right in with the other overpowered garbage.

    I think it'd be interesting to make all the kits WEAK in all aspects except for one and they are really good in that area. Essentially it would make you wonder if it was worth sacking all the other features your class has to offer in exchange for one really useful ability or to improve an existing ability (such as losing shapeshifting in exchange for spirit animal summonings or losing the ability to cast from a school of magic to gain an extra spell slot).

    Hmm... this has gotten my gears turning. I need to start doing to writing now.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited September 2013
    If you search my posts, I've done quite a bit of extensive campaigning for more PnP-levels of power.

    My F/D nerf request actually has some indepth changes to druids in general mixed in, including making the shapeshifting forms more useful, adding some missing passives druids are supposed to have, and bringing the kits closer to a PnP level of balance.

    Even I'll admit that some of the real penalties or benefits don't really fit with BG, but the way they're being handled is just wrong, especially in cases where the kits are completely superior to the base class. (Bards, Paladin, druid, fighter, cleric. Thief and Mage are also outdone by kits, but not quite to the degree of the others, the BH is the only thief kit that is simply better, trading a minor skill penalty (slightly offset by a +15 bonus to set trap) for double traps. The Swashbuckler on the other hand becomes flat out better at the end (and is another class I list as broken) but is lack luster during the early game due to slow acquisition of bonuses, vs a thief just BSing the enemy for x4-5 damage, at least till late SoA and beyond when BS becomes nearly useless or not worth the effort of trying to set up. Mages on the other hand are generally outdone by the Conjurer who loses divination instead of evocation, of which only true-sight is an actual loss (and can be easily compensated by a host of different means, and even then is only situationally useful).

    Kits are just supposed to add additional flavor to class, not replace it outright, and need a roughly equal penalty for every bonus they offer to make the player really make a choice whether or not they should play a kit due to it's flavor/playstyle over the vanilla class.
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 388


    Kits are just supposed to add additional flavor to class, not replace it outright, and need a roughly equal penalty for every bonus they offer to make the player really make a choice whether or not they should play a kit due to it's flavor/playstyle over the vanilla class.

    This.
  • The penalty for choosing the suggested shapechange ability (which of course could be a short-term shape change) is the missing out on HLA spells (that is why HLA). Also, the dragon disciple is already missing out on spells/day compared to vanilla sorcerer.
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