Need some advice on what to roll next!

starsky

Hi guys, long time BG gamer/forum lurker..

I've never tried out a kensai and I heard how great it can be to dual (level 13?).

I wanted to try something new and very fun. I finished a BGEE run as a ranger/cleric multi, something I also never done until I read how fun it can be. I might decide to make a swash dualed to a cleric (levl10?) as well... unsure how fun it is.

ANYWAYS! For my next run I'm going to use my Kensai I rolled up.

Stats:
Str: 18/92
Dex: 17
Con: 15
Int: 17
Wis: 9
Cha: 16

I think I have the stats to dual to either a Mage or a thief but I CANNOT decide!

Keep in mind I'm going for pure fun factor, I don't mind that it's cheesy. So should I pick a thief or a mage? or just stick to my ranger/cleric or swash/cleric? or just go with a multi fighter/thief or fighter/mage?

Thanks guys!

Heindrich

I really like the Fighter/Mage concept, and for my BG EE & BG 2 EE run, I will probably use a Dual-classed Fighter ==> Mage. I really wanted to try Kensai ==> Mage, since that'd be quite different to my current Fighter/Mage experience, but not being able to use bows is a rather huge problem both in terms of practicalities and roleplay.

I wish there was a class that allowed you to use something like a Kensai (no or light armour), but allow missile weapons, and then dual-classing into Mage.

Ranger ==> Mage is illegal right?

riyahhassett

Make a fighter with two handed sword grandmastery then dual to thief for epic backstabs.

Lord_Tansheron

riyahhassett said:

Make a fighter with two handed sword grandmastery then dual to thief for epic backstabs.

You can only backstab with weapons that would allow backstabs for a normal, single-class thief. So no 2h swords

You can however take the Staff of the Ram and do >>**EPIC**<< backstabs. Yeah, I almost ran out of highlights there...

starsky

leaning more towards kensai/mage then.... gonna be neutral so I think I'll take the new thief anyways.

Longswords or maybe scimitars... Katanas I've done too much

Level 13 best to dual at either way?

Lord_Tansheron

Lvl13 gives you the highest damage potential due to an extra 1/2 APR. It also takes quite a while to get to and to regain; so long, perhaps, that you may want to go with lvl9 instead. If you are an experienced player with lots of metagaming knowledge and no qualms about pooling XP rewards, then go for 13. If you are impatient or running with a large party, go for 9.

As for weapons, it depends on your party setup. There's certainly plenty to choose from.

IkMarc

You'd better go for lvl9. Regaining your Kensai levels from lvl13 takes half the game and the extra 1/2 APR doesn't really matter for a mage, since in the endgame you will mostly be spellcasting anyway.

For powergaming purposes you should max out dex, con and intelligence at the expense of cha or str. Cha is pretty much worthless and str can especially in BG2 easily be buffed with items.

Lateralus

starsky said:

Hi guys, long time BG gamer/forum lurker..

I've never tried out a kensai and I heard how great it can be to dual (level 13?).

I wanted to try something new and very fun. I finished a BGEE run as a ranger/cleric multi, something I also never done until I read how fun it can be. I might decide to make a swash dualed to a cleric (levl10?) as well... unsure how fun it is.

ANYWAYS! For my next run I'm going to use my Kensai I rolled up.

Stats:
Str: 18/92
Dex: 17
Con: 15
Int: 17
Wis: 9
Cha: 16

I think I have the stats to dual to either a Mage or a thief but I CANNOT decide!

Keep in mind I'm going for pure fun factor, I don't mind that it's cheesy. So should I pick a thief or a mage? or just stick to my ranger/cleric or swash/cleric? or just go with a multi fighter/thief or fighter/mage?

Thanks guys!

A good idea is too make your CON 18 even though you wont benefit with extra HP. The reason why is that if you eventually get a 20 CON, you will regenerate hp just like Kagain does. Dwarves and Orcs can start with a 19 then use the tome to hit 20. Everybody else but elves can hit 19 with the tome, and then weild buckleys buckler for an added +1.

Corvino

Optimally dualling at 13 is best for both mage & thief. However mages take a lot more XP to get to 14 than thieves, and depending on your tolerance to downtime dualling earlier may be preferable.

Scimitars are a good call for either class though, as Belm is available early and is one of the best offhands ingame. You can also pick up a +4 ninja-to on the first level of Watcher's keep as a mainhand early on.

Longswords can be appealling, but are far more limited in BG2 than BG1. You're limited to +3 maximum in SoA despite a plethora of +1 & +2 variants, and only get +4s deep in Watcher's keep or TOB.

sarevok57

I remember I was playing a few speed runs a month or so ago, and I made a half-orc fighter/thief skilled with two handed swords, and that was AWESOME, he was great in melee, did awesome damage, can wear any armor ( can have 19 str/19 con which is awesome, plus the 18 dex) and then the few times when I needed open locks/ disarm traps, took the armor off, and put it back on, he was a great character, a melee basher that freed up needing a thief

Lord_Tansheron

Lateralus said:

A good idea is too make your CON 18 even though you wont benefit with extra HP. The reason why is that if you eventually get a 20 CON, you will regenerate hp just like Kagain does. Dwarves and Orcs can start with a 19 then use the tome to hit 20. Everybody else but elves can hit 19 with the tome, and then weild buckleys buckler for an added +1.

Fighters do benefit from 18 CON; quite substantially, in fact. Even if you dual later on, the CON bonus to your HP will remain. Regeneration due to 20 CON is very weak in BG2, though. With the large HP pools you have later on, it won't make a noticeable difference.

Weapon selection is difficult in BG2, because you acquire the really good ones at such drastically different points throughout the game. Here's a Top 10 of 1h weapons, by average damage (and assuming 19 base STR):

1) Crom Faeyr (20) [Warhammer; after Underdark; power depends on STR]
2) Flail of Ages+5 (19.5) [Flail; ToB]
3) Club of Detonation+5 (18.5) [Club; Watcher's Keep]
4) Angurvadal+5 (16) [Long Sword; ToB; power depends on STR]
5) Foebane+5 (14) [Bastard Sword; ToB]
6) Stormstar+5 (13) [Mace; ToB]
7) Flail of Ages+4 (12.5) [Flail; Watcher's Keep]
8) Daystar (11) [Long Sword; before Underdark; -4 vs non-evil; double damage vs. undead]
9) Flail of Ages+3 (11) [Flail; before Underdark]
10) Celestial Fury+3 (10) [Katana; before Underdark; stuns on hit]

As you can see, the weapon types vary wildly. The most consistent one is Flail of Ages, which is truly an outstanding weapon. Aside from that, it's difficult to make a choice that holds up in both early and late game. I recommend Long Swords because Daystar is laughably easy to get and undead are quite common (most enemies in the game are evil, too); and Katana, because despite the lower damage Celestial Fury remains a dominating force throughout SoA, and is still useful in ToB. Bastard Swords are not recommended; there are very few viable ones.

Corvino

@Lord_Tansheron: I'm not sure I agree with your weapon list, despite the clearly stated criteria of max damage. Often it is the utility of a weapon (+elemental damage bypassing stoneskin) which makes a weapon invaluable rather than max damage. There are also problems like the Daystar only counting as +2 and being unable to hit iron golems, for example.

Also, of your list only 8, 9 & 10 are available pre-Underdark. Many of the Watcher's keep items begin at +3 and cannot reach +5 until Cespenar in TOB upgrades them.

Edit: FoA +3 and Celestial fury definitely kick arse though.

Lord_Tansheron

@Corvino: it's average damage, not maximum damage. I agree that this is not the only criterion of course, and that many more factors play a role. This is just an example, if you really want I could make a more comprehensive list down to the single digits... The reason I made it top-down is that for character planning, you may want to keep in mind things you'll use in the future as well. It's not the only factor in the decision by any means, but it's a consideration. I also intended the list to illustrate the diversity of weapon types among end game choices, and the consequent difficulty in allocating proficiency points at early/mid game, keeping those choices in mind.

Lateralus

Lord_Tansheron said:

Lateralus said:

A good idea is too make your CON 18 even though you wont benefit with extra HP. The reason why is that if you eventually get a 20 CON, you will regenerate hp just like Kagain does. Dwarves and Orcs can start with a 19 then use the tome to hit 20. Everybody else but elves can hit 19 with the tome, and then weild buckleys buckler for an added +1.

Fighters do benefit from 18 CON; quite substantially, in fact. Even if you dual later on, the CON bonus to your HP will remain. Regeneration due to 20 CON is very weak in BG2, though. With the large HP pools you have later on, it won't make a noticeable difference.

Weapon selection is difficult in BG2, because you acquire the really good ones at such drastically different points throughout the game. Here's a Top 10 of 1h weapons, by average damage (and assuming 19 base STR):

1) Crom Faeyr (20) [Warhammer; after Underdark; power depends on STR]
2) Flail of Ages+5 (19.5) [Flail; ToB]
3) Club of Detonation+5 (18.5) [Club; Watcher's Keep]
4) Angurvadal+5 (16) [Long Sword; ToB; power depends on STR]
5) Foebane+5 (14) [Bastard Sword; ToB]
6) Stormstar+5 (13) [Mace; ToB]
7) Flail of Ages+4 (12.5) [Flail; Watcher's Keep]
8) Daystar (11) [Long Sword; before Underdark; -4 vs non-evil; double damage vs. undead]
9) Flail of Ages+3 (11) [Flail; before Underdark]
10) Celestial Fury+3 (10) [Katana; before Underdark; stuns on hit]

As you can see, the weapon types vary wildly. The most consistent one is Flail of Ages, which is truly an outstanding weapon. Aside from that, it's difficult to make a choice that holds up in both early and late game. I recommend Long Swords because Daystar is laughably easy to get and undead are quite common (most enemies in the game are evil, too); and Katana, because despite the lower damage Celestial Fury remains a dominating force throughout SoA, and is still useful in ToB. Bastard Swords are not recommended; there are very few viable ones.

It makes a noticable difference, because you can heal 100 hp or by simply resting for even partially resting. Or traveling. I dont dungeon crawl without it, or solo without it.

Lord_Tansheron

You can heal through rest without it, too. There are very few instances in BG2 where time plays a role, whether you rest 8 hours or 8 days is completely irrelevant most of the time. Sometimes it's not, I grant you that, and CON regen *is* an advantage - it's just not the big, deciding argument. Getting lots of HP from 20 CON (as a fighter) totally is, though! :P

elminster

Ignore this

Lord_Tansheron

@elminster: Ust Natha. Renfeld quest. Various NPCs' personal quests. That's basically it, I think.

Madhax

elminster said:

Lord_Tansheron said:

You can heal through rest without it, too. There are very few instances in BG2 where time plays a role, whether you rest 8 hours or 8 days is completely irrelevant most of the time. Sometimes it's not, I grant you that, and CON regen *is* an advantage - it's just not the big, deciding argument. Getting lots of HP from 20 CON (as a fighter) totally is, though! :P

Theres obviously the poisoning by Marek in BG1, but at what point does time play a factor in BG2?

Certain Stronghold quests, I think? That's the only instance that comes to mind for me.

I think shooting for natural regeneration depends on your style of roleplaying. Obviously, resting for weeks at a time, multiple times, in a single dungeon crawl is unrealistic and potentially immersion-breaking if you dwell on it. Of course, a mage with the endurance of an Olympian isn't very likely, either.

The first time I beat Icewind Dale, I logged over 1,000 days adventuring due to lack of any healer. My party would rest for forty days at a time. I didn't particularly care.

elminster

Wow people were quick to jump on that one. I realized my mistake and edited my post out before both of you posted.