Do thieves still hold out in TOB despite the mass backstabbing immunities?

RagingOrc

Hey guys,

Was just wondering if anyone has any words of wisdom on this area?

I remember lots of enemies being immune to backstabbing in TOB possibly to make fights more challenging. With thieves and Fighter/thieves using backstabs as a staple part of their combat routine, do they lose their edge in the final chapter? Do they have to become an offtank, go ranged and focus on traps instead?

Thanks

ZanathKariashi

You're still a utility force. A F/T can just switch over to heavy armor and melee just as well as every other part-fighter.

A straight thief can use wands, cast from scrolls, or even toss on dual-speed weapons under IH and tear up some trash using the Shakti-figurine/Tenser scrolls under Assassination. Mostly though you'll be leading enemies to spike traps for the bulk of your damage.

Assassin's still have their traps and poison. Bounty Hunter have their OP maze traps, allowing them to Spike trap enemies in circumstances where it would otherwise be difficult to set it up.

And a swashy just murders everything as if they were a fighter, while also having wand use and scroll-casting, and traps. And can even use WWA to pump out high damage with non-speed weapons if they want to (only really needed vs +4 requirement enemies..dual-speed/IH works fine for trash).

Khyron

If we're going for a pure class thief here, i'd say that Swashbuckler is the only one that remains usefull.
Everything the others can do, other party members do for them and in many cases more effective.

Removing locks and traps you got mage/cleric for, setting traps you got mage skull trap and cleric wards.

Pick pocket is a joke after Bg1..

Even a fighter/thief is borderline useless, unless you're specifically going for use any item.
Backstabbing trashmobs for 150 damage is sort of pointless.

Keep in mind, casting from scrolls/wands is done as lvl 1/lvl of item.
To cast from scrolls at character level you need to use the bg2 tweakpack (cheating?)

I do love playing thief, but it comes a point where it just stops being fun.
Bg2 stronghold is balls, especially that you lose it if you're "gone" for more than a week.
(you can get it back, but it's just too annoying to even bother keeping)

An F/T never becomes obsolete, and can if played right give you some stupendous results.
(Use any item for the Paladin bastardsword and other items for near 100% magic immunity? heh)
And a Swashbuckler does in fact become quite badass indeed with their +1 to hit, damage and ac every 5 levels.
I have a theory that a Swashy might actually use it's AC to tank, compared to all other cases just being more hp than you can shake a stick at.

Jarrakul

Spike Trap is the most powerful active-use ability in the game, bar none. Use Any Item is the most powerful passive ability in the game, bar none. So yeah, they're still quite useful. Swashbucklers, Bounty Hunters, and Blades fare better than thieves, mind, but the thief remains nothing to shake a stick at.

Corvino

Use any item opens up a lot of possibilities, especially for class-restricted items if you lack the class the use them.

Things like Montolio's cloak if you lack a ranger or Wondrous gloves for a T/M spring to mind.

SharGuidesMyHand

Khyron said:

If we're going for a pure class thief here, i'd say that Swashbuckler is the only one that remains usefull.
Everything the others can do, other party members do for them and in many cases more effective.

Removing locks and traps you got mage/cleric for, setting traps you got mage skull trap and cleric wards.

The problem here is that using a spellcaster to find traps or pick locks means they're using spell slots that could be better used for other spells.

IMO, a thief with a high find traps ability (at least over 100) is a must in any party all the way through TOB. However, I think a multi- or dualed-to-thief character is far more useful than any single class thief. Aside from perhaps a swashbuckler (who can at least be a decent melee fighter), any single class thief will feel like the wink link in a chain through most of BG2 IMO.

Lord_Tansheron

Thieves are not required by any means. You can find traps with the spell (not much competition in that slot), or just ignore them completely. There are only a handful truly lethal traps in the game (Maze and Petrification, iirc). There is also no lock that cannot be opened with Knock or bashed open with sufficient strength.

That being said, it's totally possible to make thieves viable. As someone pointed out earlier, Spike Traps are *insane* in the unmodded game. They kill anything, no questions asked. Use Any Item allows for some nice combos, and Swashbucklers by themselves are definitely decent melee combatants. Thieves may not grow impressively the way that mages do, or have the brute power of fighters, but they can be made useful to be sure. Dual/Multi class combinations especially can make them valuable additions to the team; Kensai->Thief, for example, is a very competitive damage dealer, and prime user of UAI.

cbarchuk

I know this is an old thread but I'll make a comment anyway. My favorite class is, by far, thieves of various shades. Backstab only starts to lose its effectiveness in ToB. In BG1 I'm pretty sure you can backstab everything. In BG2 SoA you can backstab almost everything. ToB, the amount of backstab immune opponents jumps through the roof. So if you want your focus to be almost exclusively backstab then you are better off sticking to only BG1 and BG2 SoA. Like it's been stated, traps remain powerful all the way through. At any rate some sort of combat thief is the way to go in my opinion. I ran a solo assassin through the series a while back. Through SoA was great. ToB stripped the assassin of its backstab prowess and poison ability. Neither of these skills worked much. At that point the assassin ceased feeling like an assassin. A shame really.