Beastmaster dualled to cleric.
DeathKnight
Member Posts: 93
So, while replaying BG2, i found a fabulous, neat little trick. Instead of the so called and praised Ranger Cleric Dual combination, i started a Beastmaster. Beastmasters cannot wear metal armor, and cannot use metal weaponry, except for clubs and staffs obviously. Got him to level 11 and dualled to cleric. Now i was in for big surprises... He got warhammers, flails AND maces, with the ability of only 1 slot able to be spent on them (but never mind, at least he will use them without penalty and he will actually be able to use them)! And what's even more interesting? I cheated in, only for trying to see if he can wear, the four dragon-made armors. Well, rejoice! He can actually wear both Black and White Dragon made armors! The White one giving him enormous benefits!
I am seriously itching to play through both EEs with a Beastmaster Cleric! As i have been reading, other people already wonder about and ask things concerning this class, so i am going to ask a few things, too! Is a beastmaster cleric able to equip ankheg armor, in 1EE, after he regains the inactive class? Can a beastmaster actually dual to cleric in the EE, because both archer and stalker cannot, at least in original 2?
I am seriously itching to play through both EEs with a Beastmaster Cleric! As i have been reading, other people already wonder about and ask things concerning this class, so i am going to ask a few things, too! Is a beastmaster cleric able to equip ankheg armor, in 1EE, after he regains the inactive class? Can a beastmaster actually dual to cleric in the EE, because both archer and stalker cannot, at least in original 2?
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Comments
Actually I have no idea lol. Never played a beast master before.
As for the dragon armors, it makes perfect sense that they can wear them as they are *not* metal armors - they are made from dragon scales. The same goes for other classes/kits that can't wear metal (like Barbarians for example). I think the Ankheg Armor follows that same logic, but I am not 100% certain.
You shouldn't lose any proficiencies when dualing, ever. You might gain some when you reactivate your old class, but you won't lose any. Restrictions that apply to your old class should continue to apply even while it is inactive, e.g. if you dual a Kensai to a Mage, you will not be able to use Darts (forbidden to Kensai) even while the Kensai class is inactive.
I would still not choose them, a summoning ranger kit is basically redundant, since they can already charm them and druids can summon plenty of animals 'for sake of the theme'.
Archer makes sense to me, a bow specialized ranger, people like that. Stalker makes some sense, could be improved upon tho.
I would probably have moved the Bard:Blade kit and reworked it into a ranger kit. It would make a killer dual wielding class.
Bard could have gone with a single weapon specced alternative with similar mechanics, just lighter, faster, and dipped into more magic.
A Ranger/Healer type makes sense too. Someone who knows a lot about nature would often resort to natural sources of healing.
Of course not everything has to make sense, we also can use them for adding flavor to our games :d.
@Gave
There's a HUGE difference between taking what you need, and hunting to excess. Beastmaster's respect nature, and understand that they as much as any other animal have a place in the circle of life and deserve to take what they need to survive, but hate when people hunt to excess or for sport.
The beast-master is also a much more powerful melee force then a single class druid could ever aspire to be.
But that's irrelevant anyway...other classes don't exist when designing a kit...the only thing that matters to a kit is "am I much stronger or much weaker then the class upon which I'm based"...if either of those is true, the kit is bad and needs to be reworked.
The Beast-master trades use of metal weapons and armor for an extremely strong summoning element that no other ranger can touch, rivaling a druid (albeit without the elemental summons), but without really sacrificing that much...they're still a warrior, and in their hands, even a stick of firewood is Death-Incarnate. Of course a vanilla ranger is free to wear heavy armor and proficient use any weapon they want with a little spell-casting (mediocre due to 1-3 druid spells sucking), and archer's are king at range, if they're a bit weaker in melee. And stalkers are adept at striking from Ambush, while still getting the martial elements of a ranger who can also cast IH, which is just plain broken (IMO the extra spells should be removed because they are way too much...the armor penalty only really offsets the BS/Stealth bonus).
All rangers are healers...the only thing druid spells 1-3 are good for (except for Beast-masters) is healing, and few weak buffs or easily saved against CC effect...aka..healing is basically all that's worth casting.
They use non-metal weapons/armor due equipment crafted from natural unprocessed materials being easier to make and maintain in the wilderness (which unlike other rangers, is where they spend 99.9999% of their time, living with their huge horde of animal companions), while metal weapons/armor require A LOT of extra care to keep them in working condition in a wilderness setting.
The Blade is a bard kit...while Bioware f'd up it's implementation (despite all the mechanics for a properly implemented blade being present), that part doesn't change. (Blades are actually akin to Circus Performers, instead of warriors...they get few tangible combat benefits, but are made to support a party rather then be a true offensive force (that's what the PnP-Skald and Gallant are for).
PnP-Blade - BG conversion
** dual-wielding at creation
Called shot at the same progression as an archer (used with thrown weapons)
Defensive spin - same as now, except attackers attempting to strike the blade in melee have to save or take damage equal to half the blade's level.
Offensive spin - Next hit causes the enemy to run in fear for 5 rounds, no save. Enemies higher level then the blade are unaffected, as are creatures immune to fear.
Weapon display - +1 hit/-1 hit to allies/enemies in range as long as they maintain the effect. Replaces current song effect. Enemies higher level then the blade are unaffected. (Breaks invisibility and stealth, as allies/enemies need to see the display to be effected).
Gets HLA from the warrior table.
Penalties -
Cannot use bows, slings, x-bows
Cannot use wands or cast spells from scrolls (can still learn spells from them but with a -15% penalty)
No lore bonus (3/level, same as a normal rogue)
Gets HLA from the warrior table instead of Bard table.
It seems strange that BMs can circumvent their weapon penalty by dualing. Other classes that have such restrictions maintain them afterwards, so it seems to me it might be an oversight that they are allowed access
The only logic I can see behind it is that with mages, it's a question of abilitiy; they aren't strong or dexterous enough to wield more martial weapons. With clerics, it's a question of conviction - they *could* use the weapons, they simply refuse to because of their beliefs. That model seems to override everything else; Kensai for example follow a similar model of choosing not to use ranged weapons rather than being unable to.
Beast Masters however seem to fall outside of this pattern. Their weapon restriction should be belief-based, not ability-based, and as such should be retained in a class combination. Perhaps it really is an oversight, perhaps it is a hard-coded limitation of the game engine; I'm not sure.
There seem to be other incongruities as well, like Kensai limitations applying even while the class is inactive, whereas cleric limitations do not. Strange things indeed!
A F/D is just a druid who has stronger martial training, but paid for it, either with downtime/higher stat requirements, or slower simulations development while sacrificing the ability to specialize but otherwise getting full warrior development. Still limited to druid weapons and armor, but able to use them MUCH more effectively then a single class druid ever could.
Kensai don't use armor because of their combat style, which is based around fluid mobility and fast precise strikes that exploit weaknesses in an opponent's fighting style for devastating effect, as opposed to the more rough heavy-handed fighting styles generic fighters and berserkers use. Functionally it is the same overall, with kensai just having a big damage bonus with an armor penalty, but flavor-wise, they fight in complete different ways.
This is also why a fighter doesn't keep their superior thac0 when freshly dualing to a thief. Thieves fight in a completely different style then a fighter does, requiring them to start from stratch in their learning, and only it's when they've become better at their new style that they can then merge their combat styles together to take advantage of both elements.
Hmm, Beastmasters can also at high level summon familiar through skill (not spell)... I seriously doubt that this in 2EE will be exploitable for gaining 12 permanent hitpoints each time you start a game anew, with an imported character carrying a familiar in inventory.