Skip to content

BG2EE DLC Idea: Valen

BaxyrattyBaxyratty Member Posts: 190
edited September 2013 in Feature Requests
Hear me out here. A lot of people have used the Valen mod, myself included. a good chunk of the writing is solid, hand heck she's fun to play with even if she's overpowered. my suggestion/request would be, buy or obtain the rights from mr. Weimer, get Valen a new voice actress, give her real banters, a character sidequest, and make her vampiric powers progress at a slower rate so that she doesn't become a one character party by the first 4th of the game, and you guys would have a pretty nifty DLC that i'd gladly pay extra for in the future :)

Comments

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Valen is interesting to be sure, but I'm not sure how profitable the idea of turning a mod into DLC is. People will be up in arms about it, especially given how prolific the modding scene is particularly when it comes to NPCs.

    Also, I don't think you need to worry about rights. Valen is, after all, not an original creation but a modification of an existing character. Extra lines or not, that should put the IP rights with the license holder. Don't think it's much of a problem anyway, the mod is not exactly densely written (by the author's own admission) and would need to be reworked so substantially you might as well start from scratch.
  • BaxyrattyBaxyratty Member Posts: 190

    Valen is interesting to be sure, but I'm not sure how profitable the idea of turning a mod into DLC is. People will be up in arms about it, especially given how prolific the modding scene is particularly when it comes to NPCs.

    Also, I don't think you need to worry about rights. Valen is, after all, not an original creation but a modification of an existing character. Extra lines or not, that should put the IP rights with the license holder. Don't think it's much of a problem anyway, the mod is not exactly densely written (by the author's own admission) and would need to be reworked so substantially you might as well start from scratch.

    i would agree that people would be up in arms if the mod were still in production, but Weimer seems to have given up on it, and the Valen expansion mod seems to have gone on hiatus, so i wouldn't foresee to much of a problem especially from Valen fans like myself
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    I'm talking about NPC mods as DLC in general, not just Valen in particular. NPC mods are perhaps the most popular and most-used mods out there, and suddenly turning them into for-cash DLC will enrage people; not to mention that people would be far less likely to buy the DLC given how many NPCs they can get for free via mods.

    The only solution I'd see is to offer something that mod makers can't provide, e.g. voiced banter with the VAs of the new Overhaul NPCs, or perhaps some hard-coded abilities that can't be replicated with modding tools. If you don't offer anything special like that, I don't see it being a viable option that can compete with the modding scene.
  • BaxyrattyBaxyratty Member Posts: 190

    I'm talking about NPC mods as DLC in general, not just Valen in particular. NPC mods are perhaps the most popular and most-used mods out there, and suddenly turning them into for-cash DLC will enrage people; not to mention that people would be far less likely to buy the DLC given how many NPCs they can get for free via mods.

    The only solution I'd see is to offer something that mod makers can't provide, e.g. voiced banter with the VAs of the new Overhaul NPCs, or perhaps some hard-coded abilities that can't be replicated with modding tools. If you don't offer anything special like that, I don't see it being a viable option that can compete with the modding scene.

    I suggested a new VA and banters with the npcs as well as a sidequest, i realize just transplanting the mod as is would be a waste of time and effort
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    edited September 2013
    Just a VA for the main NPC isn't enough, though. There's several fully voiced NPC mods out there, and plenty with side quests.

    I don't have a problem with the general idea, I just don't think it's a viable option for DLC. Mods are too popular, and too prolific, so it would have to be something mods can't do (or do badly).

    Maybe a celebrity VA? I'd totally buy a Claudia Black as Valen.
  • BaxyrattyBaxyratty Member Posts: 190
    i'm sure they'd come up with something, all i'm doing is throwing the idea out there and hopping for the best :)
  • JoeyJoey Member Posts: 201

    I'm talking about NPC mods as DLC in general, not just Valen in particular. NPC mods are perhaps the most popular and most-used mods out there, and suddenly turning them into for-cash DLC will enrage people; not to mention that people would be far less likely to buy the DLC given how many NPCs they can get for free via mods.

    The only solution I'd see is to offer something that mod makers can't provide, e.g. voiced banter with the VAs of the new Overhaul NPCs, or perhaps some hard-coded abilities that can't be replicated with modding tools. If you don't offer anything special like that, I don't see it being a viable option that can compete with the modding scene.

    Why would people be "up in arms" over the purchase of optional DLC? Either you can download the mod for free, or you can download an indepth, voice acted DLC for £2.99. I know which one I'd have.
  • BaxyrattyBaxyratty Member Posts: 190
    just bumping this to see other thoughts.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Selling someone's mod as a DLC to add another overpowered Vampire rogue doesn't seem like a good idea to me, and I won't like so to happen.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    CrevsDaak said:

    Selling someone's mod as a DLC to add another overpowered Vampire rogue doesn't seem like a good idea to me, and I won't like so to happen.

    Yeah, probably not a wise choice to add a second vampire thief. DLC NPCs would have to be something very creative, and probably come bundled with something else on top to be attractive, IE useful but balanced support gear, a new kit, etc. I can't see people paying for an NPC unless it adds at least as much as the existing ones, making such a project fairly substantial compared to the readily available mods that already exist.
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    CrevsDaak said:

    Selling someone's mod as a DLC to add another overpowered Vampire rogue doesn't seem like a good idea to me, and I won't like so to happen.

    Right Valen was broken OP, but with proper balancing, a more fleshed out story, a quest or two, some banters and good voice acting, I can see this idea having real merit. Anyway it doesn't have to be Valen, Solaufein would be the first character that I would buy as a extra "fixed" dlc.

  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    Well, the first issue with this is that Wes Weimer hasn't given the rights to Valen to Beamdog. Also, I don't know of anyone that could get into contact with Wes about this, and I wouldn't know if he would, or wouldn't give up the rights to Valen, or Soluafein for that matter. This is kind of why the BG1NPC Project isn't in BGEE. Beamdog can't get into contact with all the mod's authors.

    Secondly, making a mod NPC into a paid DLC would go off as well as a fart in church. When people try to monetize something that was originally free in the first place, a lot of people come out and complain against that. Example, The Skyrim Romance Mod. The author started a Kickstarter for her mod, because she wanted to pay her team for all the hard work that they've done. As soon as she did that a lot of people came out of the woodwork, and harassed the crap out of her.

    Finally, wouldn't it just be a lot easier if someone just made the NPC mod more compatible with BG2EE? That way Beamdog wouldn't need to deal with the legal stuff, and try to get into contact with someone that they might not be able to get into contact with.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Finally, wouldn't it just be a lot easier if someone just made the NPC mod more compatible with BG2EE? That way Beamdog wouldn't need to deal with the legal stuff, and try to get into contact with someone that they might not be able to get into contact with.

    Well... the "problem" with the compatibility process is that it's purely mechanical. No one's really interested in going over the content, which - in many cases - has aged just as poorly as the technical aspects.

    Another thing to consider specifically with regards to Weimer's mods is that, unlike the majority of NPC mods out there, Solaufein and Valen are existing characters in BG2. So if Beamdog were to get different voice actors and construct different storylines/dialogues for them, they'd be perfectly within their rights to sell those specific characters as DLC. (And, I suppose, one could make the argument that a more professional touch would make those two much more appealing, since the major criticism towards Solaufein has always been regarding the way Weimer wrote him.)
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155

    CrevsDaak said:

    Selling someone's mod as a DLC to add another overpowered Vampire rogue doesn't seem like a good idea to me, and I won't like so to happen.

    Right Valen was broken OP, but with proper balancing, a more fleshed out story, a quest or two, some banters and good voice acting, I can see this idea having real merit. Anyway it doesn't have to be Valen, Solaufein would be the first character that I would buy as a extra "fixed" dlc.

    But any modder could do that! (ok, maybe not the proper voice acting, but I'm reluctant to pay for something that was already free anyway) If you know how to create WeiDU mods, and know how to properly write the character for the game you can do that there's no need for Beamdog to do that. Let's rather have the guys at Beamdog focus on externalizing engine stuff and patching/publishing the other games (which you have to pay for anyway, so if Beamdog works on them and sells them, I think it's even better).
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    CrevsDaak said:

    CrevsDaak said:

    Selling someone's mod as a DLC to add another overpowered Vampire rogue doesn't seem like a good idea to me, and I won't like so to happen.

    Right Valen was broken OP, but with proper balancing, a more fleshed out story, a quest or two, some banters and good voice acting, I can see this idea having real merit. Anyway it doesn't have to be Valen, Solaufein would be the first character that I would buy as a extra "fixed" dlc.

    But any modder could do that! (ok, maybe not the proper voice acting, but I'm reluctant to pay for something that was already free anyway) If you know how to create WeiDU mods, and know how to properly write the character for the game you can do that there's no need for Beamdog to do that. Let's rather have the guys at Beamdog focus on externalizing engine stuff and patching/publishing the other games (which you have to pay for anyway, so if Beamdog works on them and sells them, I think it's even better).
    I largely agree with this, but still think you might get enough interest if the DLC wasn't simply an NPC mod, it would need to have some other stuff in it that freshens things up. But, hard to say what kind of sales you'd get, aka the bottom line. BG is certainly not a new game, but it might well qualify as a long term classic, the gaming equivilent of a great movie or novel that will be enjoyed by many for years to come. Then again, XP totals are creeping up, so any new quests would have to be light on XP, limiting the scope further.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    CrevsDaak said:

    But any modder could do that! (ok, maybe not the proper voice acting, but I'm reluctant to pay for something that was already free anyway) If you know how to create WeiDU mods, and know how to properly write the character for the game you can do that there's no need for Beamdog to do that.

    The problem, IMO, is that there seems to be a taboo within the modding community when it comes to alternative takes on existing mods. In all the years since Weimer's Solaufein, and all the debates about the specific design choices he made, no one's ever tried to put out a different version of the character. Hexxat may be a response to Valen, but unfortunately, her writing isn't much better.

    The larger issue is that if Beamdog were going to sell new characters as DLC, they would've done it by now. Waiting two or three years after a game's release just doesn't sit right from a business perspective.
  • InKalInKal Member Posts: 196
    Installed both mods Sola and Valen without errors.

    Valen was a tricky one: in order to install you must copy valenL and valenS from valen folder to portraits foler.

    ehhh... once Sola was crashing my game in Temple District, will play and test.

    ps. necroposting
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited January 2016
    If they add Valen then I demand that they also add Saerileth, with no changes to her romance. If we're going to add mediocre/bad mods to the game, then Saerileth has to be a part of it. Who wouldn't want to see her die from heartbreak?
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    SionIV said:

    If they add Valen then I demand that they also add Saerileth, with no changes to her romance. If we're going to add mediocre/bad mods to the game, then Saerileth has to be a part of it. Who wouldn't want to see her die from heartbreak?

    Wow, i lived to see someone say this crazy blasphemy!! Valen being a shit mod? ok...
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    kamuizin said:

    SionIV said:

    If they add Valen then I demand that they also add Saerileth, with no changes to her romance. If we're going to add mediocre/bad mods to the game, then Saerileth has to be a part of it. Who wouldn't want to see her die from heartbreak?

    Wow, i lived to see someone say this crazy blasphemy!! Valen being a shit mod? ok...
    It is not that uncommon an opinion. It is poorly balanced and does not fit smoothly into the game. I agree witgmh the statement and feel tge same about Solaufein.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Ammar said:

    It is not that uncommon an opinion. It is poorly balanced and does not fit smoothly into the game. I agree witgmh the statement and feel tge same about Solaufein.

    To be fair, those are mechanical concerns that could easily be tweaked. From a writing perspective, she's a better fit than Hexxat.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Just off the top of my head, as an example of how little thought and effort really need to go into this: one of the problems many players had with Valen was that she makes choices in your place, like giving Adalon's eggs to the demon or just randomly attacking NPCs.

    All you'd need to do to solve that problem and give the player some agency back would be to fire off a line of dialogue when Valen goes off-script, and in each scenario there's a different "out". Like, if you have 15 or 16 CHA you can persuade Valen to give the eggs back, but when she wants to fight Drizzt CHA won't work; you need high STR to intimidate her instead.

    That way, you will inevitably encounter at least one scenario where you don't have enough of the right stat to stop her, so she gets her moment of evil independence without it being a constant and consistent problem.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    Ammar said:

    kamuizin said:

    SionIV said:

    If they add Valen then I demand that they also add Saerileth, with no changes to her romance. If we're going to add mediocre/bad mods to the game, then Saerileth has to be a part of it. Who wouldn't want to see her die from heartbreak?

    Wow, i lived to see someone say this crazy blasphemy!! Valen being a shit mod? ok...
    It is not that uncommon an opinion. It is poorly balanced and does not fit smoothly into the game. I agree witgmh the statement and feel tge same about Solaufein.
    It's made to be unbalanced, but that was a double edge as half of Amn became red icons when you walk around.
Sign In or Register to comment.