A Parcel of Rogues in a Nation
lamaros
Member Posts: 139
Who likes meta-power-thematic Baldur's Gate groups? I do!
Who likes master-of-everything player characters? Me again!
Who likes pontificating about the above on the internet? Guilty again!
With that in mind, consider this a catch-all thread for my current play-through of BG1&2 with the following group (note the ability scores are from memory, I'll edit them later if I was a little off). It will include whatever I think to include.
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Queen Loana the Elven Stalker. 18/98, 19, 17, 10, 15, 10. She starts with three points in Two Weapon Style (TWS), two in Long Swords (LS) and one in Short Swords (SS).
Jyan Acerbus the Half-Elven Blade. 18, 18, 16, 18, 8, 15 (Blades get nice rolls). He starts with one point in SS and one in TWS.
Pudding the Human Swashbuckler. 18, 18, 18, 10, 10, 15. She starts with one in Scimitars (SC) and one in TWS. All thief points in Find Traps.
Porridge the Human Swashbucker. 16, 18, 16, 18, 18, 3. He starts with one in Katanas (K) and one in Single Weapon Style (SWS). All thief points in Pick Locks.
Echo in the Gnomish Thief/Illusionist. 18, 18, 18, 19, 10, 6. She starts with one point in Daggers and one in SWS. All thief points are in Detect Illusions.
The basic notion here is that everyone is a bit of a thief, and (nearly) everyone is ok in combat, and (nearly) everyone will cast a few spells. Pudding and Porridge will dual class to Fighter and Mage respectively, most likely at level 10.
Everyone bar Pudding will be able to cast spells. Everyone bar Jyan will be able to sneak. Echo and Loana can backstab. Loana, Jyan, and Pudding will all dual wield. Etc. In BG1 the stat advances are aimed at Loana (Con, Dex), Jyan (Cha, Wis), Porridge (Int), and Pudding (Str). (If only I'd gotten a better roll and could have got Echo to 17 Wis for a stat boost too. Alas.)
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(Note, I'm playing this through BGT with SCS mostly enabled - Buying BGEE has to wait until I have a proper internet connection again and the patch is out.)
The group has gone through the first explorations now, pretty much everything south of Candlekeep and west of the the road to Nashkel. Or, more accurately, Queen Loana has gone through, with the others watching. She's responsibly for 80% of the kills and experience to date. Given her starting power - with stealth, backstab, high strength and more preferences - this isn't exactly a surprise, though the margin is even greater than anticipated.
The group has a few levels now and Porridge had just placed a point in Crossbows and gained the crossbow of speed, which - along with the bracers of archery - has made him much more useful. Echo has picked up the boomerang dagger (via Kivan's sub-quest in the BG1 NPC Project), a point in Quarterstaves and Silke's +1 staff, and is a few thousand gold away from adding the dagger of Venom. Pudding has the Shadow Armor and now clearly has the best AC of the group with her Swashbuckler bonuses. Jyan is still just singing most of the time. The thieves have all hit 100 in their base skills and are now adding points in the stealth skills.
Loana is still doing most of the work, though. This will likely continue to be the case for much of BG1, with Pudding and Porridge adding in a little here and there, and the other two pulling their weight with spells in the more tricky encounters. Once the twins tick over on their duals they'll be pretty nifty, though.
Other general notes:
Echo using Detect Illusions while throwing Daggers in medium range is very handy. Silke was cut through like butter with it on. I anticipate it will actually be useful indeed. Coupled with the Dagger of Venom I suspect Echo will be quite handy at dealing with mages.
Normally I have far too many wands in BG1. Now I actually have enough player characters to use them!
Who likes master-of-everything player characters? Me again!
Who likes pontificating about the above on the internet? Guilty again!
With that in mind, consider this a catch-all thread for my current play-through of BG1&2 with the following group (note the ability scores are from memory, I'll edit them later if I was a little off). It will include whatever I think to include.
*
Queen Loana the Elven Stalker. 18/98, 19, 17, 10, 15, 10. She starts with three points in Two Weapon Style (TWS), two in Long Swords (LS) and one in Short Swords (SS).
Jyan Acerbus the Half-Elven Blade. 18, 18, 16, 18, 8, 15 (Blades get nice rolls). He starts with one point in SS and one in TWS.
Pudding the Human Swashbuckler. 18, 18, 18, 10, 10, 15. She starts with one in Scimitars (SC) and one in TWS. All thief points in Find Traps.
Porridge the Human Swashbucker. 16, 18, 16, 18, 18, 3. He starts with one in Katanas (K) and one in Single Weapon Style (SWS). All thief points in Pick Locks.
Echo in the Gnomish Thief/Illusionist. 18, 18, 18, 19, 10, 6. She starts with one point in Daggers and one in SWS. All thief points are in Detect Illusions.
The basic notion here is that everyone is a bit of a thief, and (nearly) everyone is ok in combat, and (nearly) everyone will cast a few spells. Pudding and Porridge will dual class to Fighter and Mage respectively, most likely at level 10.
Everyone bar Pudding will be able to cast spells. Everyone bar Jyan will be able to sneak. Echo and Loana can backstab. Loana, Jyan, and Pudding will all dual wield. Etc. In BG1 the stat advances are aimed at Loana (Con, Dex), Jyan (Cha, Wis), Porridge (Int), and Pudding (Str). (If only I'd gotten a better roll and could have got Echo to 17 Wis for a stat boost too. Alas.)
*
(Note, I'm playing this through BGT with SCS mostly enabled - Buying BGEE has to wait until I have a proper internet connection again and the patch is out.)
The group has gone through the first explorations now, pretty much everything south of Candlekeep and west of the the road to Nashkel. Or, more accurately, Queen Loana has gone through, with the others watching. She's responsibly for 80% of the kills and experience to date. Given her starting power - with stealth, backstab, high strength and more preferences - this isn't exactly a surprise, though the margin is even greater than anticipated.
The group has a few levels now and Porridge had just placed a point in Crossbows and gained the crossbow of speed, which - along with the bracers of archery - has made him much more useful. Echo has picked up the boomerang dagger (via Kivan's sub-quest in the BG1 NPC Project), a point in Quarterstaves and Silke's +1 staff, and is a few thousand gold away from adding the dagger of Venom. Pudding has the Shadow Armor and now clearly has the best AC of the group with her Swashbuckler bonuses. Jyan is still just singing most of the time. The thieves have all hit 100 in their base skills and are now adding points in the stealth skills.
Loana is still doing most of the work, though. This will likely continue to be the case for much of BG1, with Pudding and Porridge adding in a little here and there, and the other two pulling their weight with spells in the more tricky encounters. Once the twins tick over on their duals they'll be pretty nifty, though.
Other general notes:
Echo using Detect Illusions while throwing Daggers in medium range is very handy. Silke was cut through like butter with it on. I anticipate it will actually be useful indeed. Coupled with the Dagger of Venom I suspect Echo will be quite handy at dealing with mages.
Normally I have far too many wands in BG1. Now I actually have enough player characters to use them!
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Comments
I probably would have added a gnome or Half-orc Cleric/thief to your group myself but then I am very big on priests and not so big on mage types.
Good luck!
The Nashkel mines are now done. It was, as you might expect, a doddle. Even with Loana getting charmed by the Half-Orc it worked ok, as Pudding tanked her while everyone else died.
The slow roll up to the bandit camp is now on - though there isn't much to look forward to for the characters apart from some minor loot (bracers, gauntlets, etc).
A wand of monster summoning found its way into Echo's hands. Loana picked up the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise (Kahrk has been left to later). Another pair of Boots of Stealth are on Echo's feet. Icharyd is dead (in what was a difficult fight, in the end). As this is SCS the two assassin groups have jumped the party by now, but both were easily dealt with and their loot is being enjoyed.
The group is now going to check out Firewine, having skipped Ulcaster. There is little reason to do minor quests and they instead kill some experience laden beats and just hit the loot and story spots.
Echo and Porridge are pretty handy with their ranged weapons, but Pudding is still struggling to do much. She has the best AC (-3 base) but her THAC0 is poor (15) and she just gets one attack a round so she takes a long time to kill things. I had thought to sneak into Durlag's Tower and get the +2 scimitar, but that was a no go as yet.
Everyone has hit just over 20k experience.
I'm almost wishing Loana was something else now. Almost (she is still doing 65% of the work). Leveling is about to get really slow for her. By the time she hits level 21 Pudding will already be a 15 Swash -> 19 Fighter. Getting her the +dex tome will be nice, as with 20 dex she'll get a little more ac and some ranged power.
Echo is pretty good with the Boomerang dagger, due to 18 strength. And DI is very handy, as is the dagger of venom, but she is very squishy. This is party due to the slower leveling, but being a mage does that too. I would almost consider making her the primary character if I did it again, for the familiar. But a very powerful combo all the same. Best backstab to date was 66 damage.
Jyan is hard to judge. Blades are pretty weak early, and it's hard to value the song, but I wish he did do a little more. Of course it's all a wait to level 6 spells with the Blades, so I'm not getting impatient. It's just slow going. Once he hits three points in TWS I can at least load him up for melee and watch him go.
Pudding, as stated, is a pretty handy tank at the moment. With the claw, shadow armor, swash bonuses and a buckler she has -4AC base and a bit more with missiles and the like. Being scimitars is cutting into her damage output, but the next pip in TWS will help out. Her stealth is getting up there but after seeing the value of DI on Echo I am now planning on flipping her over at level 15 so I can get Detect Traps, Illusions and a decent stealth value on her. Really she's all prep and decoy at the moment, and won't do a whole lot until BG2.
Porridge is doing great with the crossbow, not much else to report. Will continue to be handy right through to BG2 I expect, when he will make a reasonably quick jump over to Mage. He's also getting stealthy now that lockpicking is high enough. He's not optimum, though. He would have got a bit more value from being a Berserker or Kensai and getting another two attacks per round. But we knew that already. Plus we're going to try and spend most of his time as a mage actually casting, with a decent AC. We'll see!
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When I do get to BG2 I'm thinking I might do the sneaky and shadowkeeper Jan, Valygar and Haer'Dalis into Echo, Loana and Jyan's stats at the time I pick them up (dropping the original), so I can play the same group through with a bit of colour added. Mazzy I *might* turn into Pudding (Illegally), leaving Porridge as the Bhaalspawn.
Though maybe I wont do that at all.
Between when Porridge duals, at level 10, and regains his levels:
Loana goes from level 8 to level 9.
Jyan goes from level 10 to level 12.
Pudding goes from level 10 to level 12.
Echo goes from level 8/9 to level 10/11.
Between when Pudding duals, at level 15, and regains her levels:
Loana goes from level 11 to level 18.
Jyan goes from level 15 to level 24.
Porridge goes from level 10/12 to level 10/17.
Echo goes from level 11/12 to level 14/17.
At the experience cap the PCs will be as follows:
Loana level 34 Stalker.
Jyan level 40 (46 w/o the cap limiter) Blade.
Pudding levels 15/35 S->W.
Porridge levels 10/30 S->M.
Echo levels 20/28 M/T.
All of which makes me think maybe it's not worth dualing Pudding at 15 and just going at 10.
Now to the cloakwood for this merry bunch!
Loana is struggling with the poor armor options at her disposal. While she does a good bit of damage with her weapons and has the best Thac0 by far the fact she is sitting at an AC of 1 is not very handy at all. Unless she is chugging potions to improve her AC she gets cut up a bit. However she is the only one who can use half the potions, so she isn't exactly running short. She now has 20 DEX, but it's a fair wait to the machine of lum the mad. One bonus to Loana I haven't covered yet is the fact she can read divine scrolls. This is very useful for the future, but not really needed yet.
Jyan is slowly getting there. He can cast every now and then, and does walk about without his armor on mostly, but when it gets serious he's a damage dealer. With images and blur and his spins he hold his own pretty well, using the wands if needed. He has just gotten his third point in TWS, but decent weapons are a little thin on the ground. I think I sold the ninja-to +1, which is probably what he needs now.
Pudding is getting better and better, but she really needs decent weapons. BG1 just doesn't have enough to go around. She also has three pips in TWS now, and so either Drizzt or Durlag's tower will need to be considered soon.
Porridge is going ok, but not really improving that much like the others are. He's hanging out for dual classing even more than Pudding is; if I did him again I'd probably do it at level 5.
Echo is quite a fun character I have to say. The multi-class penalty isn't really felt in BG1 very much, and being able to dispel illusions and backstab and cast some magic is rather fun indeed.
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The group is wandering about the city now, doing odds and ends and slowly working towards Sarevok. Not sure if that fight will happen before or after a bit of TotSC.
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Things I'd do differently:
Dual Swashbucker->Mage at level 5. Take open locks to 100 and the rest in Find Traps (or Pick Pockets if you don't have a Bard or other thief). Once you get invisibility stealth isn't so much as you're not backstabbing, and it's slightly annoying to have open locks and find traps on two different characters. Also this gives you find trap redundancy when dualing the other class. Dualing early does lose you a little health (only ~5 though, if you're not doing max HP rolls) and -1AC, but it's not huge in the long run and having a early mage and less dual downtime is better in my view.
Give the Swashbuckler->Fighter points in Detect Illusions after Detect Traps. Because both work in heavy armor (IIRC), and Detect Illusions is handy in combat but less useful on a mage who is often at range.
No points in shortswords at the start for Loana. She's better off going with hammers and longswords to begin and letting Jyan use the shortswords. She can get the shortsword points later on.
Pudding is now rucking Full Plate, Cloak of Protection +2, Claw, Shield of Missiles, and has -8AC (1 Full Plate, -4 Dex, -1 Claw, -2 CoP +2, -2 Shield). Once Swashbuckler bonus kicks it she'll have a great time. I threw all her proficiencies into Katanas and have given her the Katana +1 that Porridge can't use anymore. I figure she'll use celestial fury through SoA and then slowly transition to FoA with her proficiency points after that. Didn't think it through greatly though!
Porridge needs to take a trip to pick up a Robe of the Good Archmage. He's rolling with bracers of AC 6 at the moment. He has a lot of spells learned already and has a nice little ring of wizadry. He's gone daggers and taken the boomerang off Echo (who has the Eagle bow, a point in Short Bows, and the bracers of Archery now).
These duals have made the shadow armor useless, incidentally. Aww.
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Things I'd do differently. Maybe.
Swash->Mage dual at 6. Points in Open Locks and Set Traps.
Swash->Warrior dual at 11. Points in Find Traps, Set Traps, and Detect Illusions.
Stealth is good, but it's not really used as much on these two given the others have it. Plus the Mage will get invisibility. Traps are pretty handy, though, and detect illusions are great.
One tricky combat was Pride, who just cut through the group before I took him on with Jyan in full combat mode. With stoneskin, blur, images and spins Jyan could tank him long enough for the group to kill the rest, then hold out while they came in to finish him off.
Jyan got to level 11, the twins to level 10->7, and Echo to 8/9. Loana is still at the level 8 bottleneck. It will take a little while longer for Pudding's dual to come through in BG2 but this is okay, as she is more useful as a single class than Porridge is currently (though his last level has bumped his spells up a bit).
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In the end Loana was sitting around 50-60% of the heavy lifting in the stats. This is a fair indication, though it doesn't reflect the importance of the other classes when it came to the difficult battles. Loana needed to load up on potions to get her AC low enough in those ones, while the others had more in built tricks to use.
It will be very interesting to see how it goes in BG2 in this regard.
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Now I just need to work out a way to get the group into BG2 while swapping the protagonist from Jyan (who is going to turn into Haer'Dalis) to Porridge in BGT. I figure maybe I can start a new game and import Porridge, then transfer the save to multiplayer and load it up and add the rest? Hopefully that works.
I am making one deviation from the general rules but adding Pudding's claw in. I figure it's meant to be thought of as a replacement hand, so it makes sense that it's not lost in the carryover.
Looking forward to BG2; this is when these duals and kits come into their own, and IMO BG2 is a much better game than BG1 (though Durlag's is a great dungeon).
The group is actually down to 4 at the moment, as HD was nicked to the PP. They're trying to spring him now, which is proving interesting. With two duals still inactive the group is not super powered, so a bit of buffing and careful play in the PP is needed. One interesting fight just completed involved dominating the spelled up YS mage, who was then hit with chaos (i think) and summoned a bunch of stuff, that attacked him. The Wyvern also got involved in hitting him. Half of them died to his fire-shields, before he also died. The group then finished up the stragglers.
Probably the team should have got Valygar first, then HD, but it's nice having a few fights you have to think about.
Onwards, though.
There is a little more power in the group now, due to Haer's resistances and gear, Valygar's gear, Jan's gear, and Mazzy's Halfling saves, but I figure that will come down over time. Having a bit of group banter about is nice.
Mosly they were picked up without having to do any quests, though Jan's personal emergency came in the middle there and had to be sorted out. As for where they go from here: Well, the Hills will get sorted, and then back to the city for a little running around doing everything!
The only thing keeping Valygar/Loana close is backstab. Though Celestial Fury has just become his.
Porridge gained his levels earlier and wanders about with -8AC: thanks to 3AC Bracers, 18 Dex (-1AC), Swash Bonus (-4), Ring of Prot (-5), and Zerth Blade + SWS ** (-8). Fully Buffed he's rather hilarious. He can also put in a hit with the katana when he feels like it.
Despite all that Haer'Dalis/Jyan is still often the go-to guy in tough melee situations, due to stoneskin/blur/imp invis/images/holy might/spin making him very hard to damage and packing a fair punch. He hits about -20AC fully buffed in defensive spin, and throws down the best skull traps to boot. The real shame is that he doesn't have stealth like everyone else does.
Jan is less clearly powerful than Haer, but more consistently useful, with his thief abilities and extra mage spells. He also sneaks in for a backstab every now and then with a staff.