BG2: Convert Fallen Paladin to Blackguard

Dragonfolk2000

This is a bit of a misleading title but I think it would be cool to have a special quest that a fallen paladin could do (or a good one that is about to go bad) that would convert the paladin's levels into blackguard levels and change his alignment to lawful evil. This sounds like a BG2 thing, since demonic presence is much more common there. It would offer more roleplay opportunities to be certain.

Lord_Tansheron

Then you'd need one to go from Blackguard to Paladin, too, though! It's a nice idea, but I think it's too involved and class/kit-specific. Material for a mod, I suppose! Pretty much writes itself.

ajwz

Lore-wise, it doesn't actually work.
An anti-paladin is a blackguard, but a fallen paladin is not a blackguard, since
1. They likely haven't changed alignments, and even if they have, its far more likely to be lawful to neutral or lawful to chaotic, or good to neutral than it is to be good to evil, but even if they have swapped from good to evil, then
2. They still require a patron deity to grant thier powers. An evil patron diety is unlikely to grant thier powers to a former paladin, no matter what.

Lord_Tansheron

Point 2. confuses me somewhat. Surely deities would welcome new followers, given that belief empowers them? Isn't that how it works? Evil deities in particular should have little qualms collecting the fallen left and right.

Dragonfolk2000

I think I read somewhere that devils absolutely LOVE it when a pure heart gets corrupted and would jump at the opportunity to keep things that way.

ajwz

Well a fallen paladin is simply a paladin who has lost their powers from their favoured deity.
I'm pretty sure most evil deities would rather not act as a patron to someone who still worships another deity

Dragonfolk2000

ajwz said:

Well a fallen paladin is simply a paladin who has lost their powers from their favoured deity.
I'm pretty sure most evil deities would rather not act as a patron to someone who still worships another deity

So I heard you god took your powers away. So I got some new powers for yah and all you have to do is sign the dotted line.

Lord_Tansheron

Is it me or did a fallen paladin essentially friendzone their god?

"So yeah, I'll still believe in you and everything, but I think I'd rather not be tied down by all those vows..."

the_spyder

Dragonfolk2000 said:

ajwz said:

Well a fallen paladin is simply a paladin who has lost their powers from their favoured deity.
I'm pretty sure most evil deities would rather not act as a patron to someone who still worships another deity

So I heard you god took your powers away. So I got some new powers for yah and all you have to do is sign the dotted line.

So if someone cheats in a marriage, there is a much higher percent chance that they will cheat with the second marriage.

Point is:

1. Fallen Paladins didn't necessarily fall because they worshiped someone else (demonic in nature). Therefore a direct one to the other doesn't make a lot of sense (unless the circumstances dictate it actually does).

2. If the Ex-Paladin wasn't faithful to his Patron, how likely is another patron going to come along and trust them with their power? Most Demons/Devils would much rather simply abuse the former servant of their enemies than actually give them anything.

Which isn't to say that it couldn't happen, just that it is very VERY unlikely.

I always hated that about NWN1/2. Particularly as the engine doesn't allow for the former Paladin to lose their abilities (without heavy modding) and therefore they stack. If the Paladin no longer worships their LG God, that god isn't going to continue to support them with their powers. Period.

ajwz

I've no doubt that an evil deity would love to snap up an actual paladin, but I doubt that they would have any special interest in a person who has already lost thier god's favour. I dont think they'd get any more enjoyment out of that than they would a regular fighter.

Dragonfolk2000

the_spyder said:

Dragonfolk2000 said:

ajwz said:

Well a fallen paladin is simply a paladin who has lost their powers from their favoured deity.
I'm pretty sure most evil deities would rather not act as a patron to someone who still worships another deity

So I heard you god took your powers away. So I got some new powers for yah and all you have to do is sign the dotted line.

So if someone cheats in a marriage, there is a much higher percent chance that they will cheat with the second marriage.

Point is:

1. Fallen Paladins didn't necessarily fall because they worshiped someone else (demonic in nature). Therefore a direct one to the other doesn't make a lot of sense (unless the circumstances dictate it actually does).

2. If the Ex-Paladin wasn't faithful to his Patron, how likely is another patron going to come along and trust them with their power? Most Demons/Devils would much rather simply abuse the former servant of their enemies than actually give them anything.

Which isn't to say that it couldn't happen, just that it is very VERY unlikely.

I always hated that about NWN1/2. Particularly as the engine doesn't allow for the former Paladin to lose their abilities (without heavy modding) and therefore they stack. If the Paladin no longer worships their LG God, that god isn't going to continue to support them with their powers. Period.

It all depends on the situation. Think about it this way: I made one little mistake and now I lost all my powers! I'm so angry at my god that I'm willing to do anything to get back at them! What's that? Blackguard? Sign me up? Why yes, I AM a bhaalspawn.

FinneousPJ

I think it's a great idea. If you think your fallen paladin wouldn't do that, just don't accept the quest.