party for Black Pits
blainedeyoung
Member Posts: 13
I'd really like to see a multi-player feature for the Black Pits. Where you could challenge other people's groups. What kind of parties do you guys play with?
And, of course, I'd like to be able to pull in any encounter from the game. And I'd like to be able to see my enemies' stats.
So, I've been playing around a little with the thought that all these plain vanilla fighters I've been using might get outclassed by some over-powered kits. And I believe that's true. My vote for the most crazy-overpowered kit party:
Inquisitor Paladin
Blackguard Paladin
2 Archer Rangers
Priest of Talos
Dragon Disciple Sorcerer
With honorable mention going to the Dwarven Defender. I decided I'd rather have 2 archers. If I were adventuring and alignment was a problem, I'd replace the Blackguard with the Defender and the Priest of Talos with a gnome cleric/thief.
By the Baldur's Gate and BGII rules, if a character is not a fighter, they're nothing. Assuming you get to make the character. 18 Con is my 2nd requirement after 18 in the prime requisite for the class. But if you're not a fighter, you can only get the bonus up to 16. Similarly, it really isn't worth getting an 18 Str just to get a +1 +2. So, if you're going to get to make 6 characters with 3 or 4 18's apiece, you definitely have to make them all fighters.
Meanwhile, at low levels the multi-class rules make it so you stay just one level below a single-class character. The answer is obvious: All your characters should be fighters. Some will be multi-classed to fill the various roles while still taking advantage of the fighter's benefits. Since, no thief is required in the Black Pits, we can take two clerics.
Fighter Half-orc
Fighter Half-orc
Inquisitor Paladin Human
Fighter/Cleric Half-orc
Fighter/Cleric Half-orc
Fighter/Mage Half-elf
A word about BGII:
Change one of those fighter/clerics to a fighter/thief and this is the party I created to play through BGII on hard. They demolished the game. I hardly ever rested. I was bogged down with healing potions that I found in the game and never used.
You might think that this fighter multi-class idea gets weak later on in Baldur's Gate II. It gets irritating, I won't lie. When your party is 20th level, your only mage is 15th level. But that mage was also a 15th level fighter who is much stronger than a single-class mage.
A lot of people venerate dual-class. Go up to 9th level fighter, get all the fighter HPs, then dual- as mage, cleric, etc. Good idea, but I found that by the end of Throne of Bhaal, characters like that couldn't hit anything. Their 9th level fighter THACO just wasn't good enough. Meanwhile, they were terrific spellcasters, but that didn't matter because everything had high magic resistance. My multi-class guys are slow to get high-level spells but their THACOs keep going down and they can hit.
Attributes
All four half-orcs have 19 Str and Con and 18 Dex. The clerics have 18 Wis. You may want to have a cleric with a 9 Int to use the Wand of Heavens. But Cha 3 and Int as low as it needs to be.
The Inquisitor is kind of a hard case. They're very useful in the Black Pits (Indispensable in BGII), but it's hard to get the attributes they need. Lower Cha and Wis as low you can and get Str, Dex, and Con up to 18. Put whatever is left over into Int. I played with an inquisitor with a 7 Int. I shutter to imagine meeting this Olympian character with his holier than thou attitude and Forrest Gump-like intelligence.
The fighter/mage has an 18 Str, Dex, and Con as well as Int. I think I got his Wis up to 10. Cha 3.
Proficiencies
Through the BG campaign (particularly at low levels) I am all about missile weapons. All my guys have the best bows and slings I can get and are specialized in using them. But in these Pit fights I don't find them useful much, a couple of times, but not much. I never bought a magic bow. The clerics got +1 slings because they're so cheap. The wizard through about 20 magic darts.
Because you want blunt weapons for a few fights and that they're not much worse, have everbody specialize in a blunt weapon. Then everybody will be free to get some missile proficiency later on.
A word about equipment:
Only buy what you need. If you don't go back and replay fights, money is limited. I never got around to buying magic shields and all my guys were still in splint mail armor late into the game. I was wearing five suits of regular plate armor when I won. The mage relied on a shield spell.
Buy the highest bonus melee weapons available as soon as they become available. Buy gifts of peace (helmet of defense, +1 save +20% many resistances). Buy two paws of the cheetah, boots of speed. Buy the ring of fire elemental command and the ring of fire resistance. Buy the improved cloak of protection +2 that can cast improved haste and improved invisibility once per day.
You need some scrolls (shield, magic missile, sleep, chromatic orb, blur, mirror image, acid arrow, horror, fireball, haste, stoneskin, minor sequencer, greater malison, fireshield, confusion). You could get by with less, but this is plenty.
You need some potions: healing and antidote mostly. I made fairly liberal use of potions of explosives too. I took 2 potions of hill giant str to buff my two 18 Str'ers for one fight. For the fire level, I bought like four potions of fire resistance. For, the big finale I used 5 potions of fire giant Str, 1 potion frost giant Str, and 3 potions of magic blocking. My hasted and giant Str'ed guys all rushed into melee with the spellcasters. And it still almost killed me. I don't see how you could do this any other way.
And wands: Fire, Heavens, Fear, Cloudkill.
I bought my frontliners composite longbows and five acid arrows. They weren't proficient. There was one fight where it came in useful that they had them.
I would love to buy: girdle of giant str, robe of the archmagi, suits of full plate armor, magic shields, rings of protection, ring of regeneration, and everything else but money is finite.
Spells:
You can rest as often as you want and can be instantly teleported to battle by talking to what's his name and you don't get dispelled or anything. So, set up all the magic you've got like there' s all the time in the world. Take an extra rest and get spell sequencer with two magic missiles in it. Cast stoneskin, rest, and then go fight. You'll have a stoneskin on and one you can cast. I had chant and true sight for almost every battle. Once my mage was fifth level, we were hasted every battle. The mage cast shield before every battle (at low levels, I bought shield scrolls so he could cast sleep).
And, of course, I'd like to be able to pull in any encounter from the game. And I'd like to be able to see my enemies' stats.
So, I've been playing around a little with the thought that all these plain vanilla fighters I've been using might get outclassed by some over-powered kits. And I believe that's true. My vote for the most crazy-overpowered kit party:
Inquisitor Paladin
Blackguard Paladin
2 Archer Rangers
Priest of Talos
Dragon Disciple Sorcerer
With honorable mention going to the Dwarven Defender. I decided I'd rather have 2 archers. If I were adventuring and alignment was a problem, I'd replace the Blackguard with the Defender and the Priest of Talos with a gnome cleric/thief.
By the Baldur's Gate and BGII rules, if a character is not a fighter, they're nothing. Assuming you get to make the character. 18 Con is my 2nd requirement after 18 in the prime requisite for the class. But if you're not a fighter, you can only get the bonus up to 16. Similarly, it really isn't worth getting an 18 Str just to get a +1 +2. So, if you're going to get to make 6 characters with 3 or 4 18's apiece, you definitely have to make them all fighters.
Meanwhile, at low levels the multi-class rules make it so you stay just one level below a single-class character. The answer is obvious: All your characters should be fighters. Some will be multi-classed to fill the various roles while still taking advantage of the fighter's benefits. Since, no thief is required in the Black Pits, we can take two clerics.
Fighter Half-orc
Fighter Half-orc
Inquisitor Paladin Human
Fighter/Cleric Half-orc
Fighter/Cleric Half-orc
Fighter/Mage Half-elf
A word about BGII:
Change one of those fighter/clerics to a fighter/thief and this is the party I created to play through BGII on hard. They demolished the game. I hardly ever rested. I was bogged down with healing potions that I found in the game and never used.
You might think that this fighter multi-class idea gets weak later on in Baldur's Gate II. It gets irritating, I won't lie. When your party is 20th level, your only mage is 15th level. But that mage was also a 15th level fighter who is much stronger than a single-class mage.
A lot of people venerate dual-class. Go up to 9th level fighter, get all the fighter HPs, then dual- as mage, cleric, etc. Good idea, but I found that by the end of Throne of Bhaal, characters like that couldn't hit anything. Their 9th level fighter THACO just wasn't good enough. Meanwhile, they were terrific spellcasters, but that didn't matter because everything had high magic resistance. My multi-class guys are slow to get high-level spells but their THACOs keep going down and they can hit.
Attributes
All four half-orcs have 19 Str and Con and 18 Dex. The clerics have 18 Wis. You may want to have a cleric with a 9 Int to use the Wand of Heavens. But Cha 3 and Int as low as it needs to be.
The Inquisitor is kind of a hard case. They're very useful in the Black Pits (Indispensable in BGII), but it's hard to get the attributes they need. Lower Cha and Wis as low you can and get Str, Dex, and Con up to 18. Put whatever is left over into Int. I played with an inquisitor with a 7 Int. I shutter to imagine meeting this Olympian character with his holier than thou attitude and Forrest Gump-like intelligence.
The fighter/mage has an 18 Str, Dex, and Con as well as Int. I think I got his Wis up to 10. Cha 3.
Proficiencies
Through the BG campaign (particularly at low levels) I am all about missile weapons. All my guys have the best bows and slings I can get and are specialized in using them. But in these Pit fights I don't find them useful much, a couple of times, but not much. I never bought a magic bow. The clerics got +1 slings because they're so cheap. The wizard through about 20 magic darts.
Because you want blunt weapons for a few fights and that they're not much worse, have everbody specialize in a blunt weapon. Then everybody will be free to get some missile proficiency later on.
A word about equipment:
Only buy what you need. If you don't go back and replay fights, money is limited. I never got around to buying magic shields and all my guys were still in splint mail armor late into the game. I was wearing five suits of regular plate armor when I won. The mage relied on a shield spell.
Buy the highest bonus melee weapons available as soon as they become available. Buy gifts of peace (helmet of defense, +1 save +20% many resistances). Buy two paws of the cheetah, boots of speed. Buy the ring of fire elemental command and the ring of fire resistance. Buy the improved cloak of protection +2 that can cast improved haste and improved invisibility once per day.
You need some scrolls (shield, magic missile, sleep, chromatic orb, blur, mirror image, acid arrow, horror, fireball, haste, stoneskin, minor sequencer, greater malison, fireshield, confusion). You could get by with less, but this is plenty.
You need some potions: healing and antidote mostly. I made fairly liberal use of potions of explosives too. I took 2 potions of hill giant str to buff my two 18 Str'ers for one fight. For the fire level, I bought like four potions of fire resistance. For, the big finale I used 5 potions of fire giant Str, 1 potion frost giant Str, and 3 potions of magic blocking. My hasted and giant Str'ed guys all rushed into melee with the spellcasters. And it still almost killed me. I don't see how you could do this any other way.
And wands: Fire, Heavens, Fear, Cloudkill.
I bought my frontliners composite longbows and five acid arrows. They weren't proficient. There was one fight where it came in useful that they had them.
I would love to buy: girdle of giant str, robe of the archmagi, suits of full plate armor, magic shields, rings of protection, ring of regeneration, and everything else but money is finite.
Spells:
You can rest as often as you want and can be instantly teleported to battle by talking to what's his name and you don't get dispelled or anything. So, set up all the magic you've got like there' s all the time in the world. Take an extra rest and get spell sequencer with two magic missiles in it. Cast stoneskin, rest, and then go fight. You'll have a stoneskin on and one you can cast. I had chant and true sight for almost every battle. Once my mage was fifth level, we were hasted every battle. The mage cast shield before every battle (at low levels, I bought shield scrolls so he could cast sleep).
Post edited by blainedeyoung on
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Comments
noreload
To each his own: I could not play a game where I have to reload every problem. A fighter-only party is a liability (and not as much fun).
I get bored having to rest and reload which is what happens when you've got non-fighters in your group.
What kind of parties do you guys play with?
Cavalier Paladin
Inquisitor Paladin
Archer Ranger
Dragon Disciple Sorcerer
Priest of Helm
Skald Bard
I'll have to ponder on it.
Inquisitor Paladin
Archer Ranger
Dragon Disciple Sorcerer
Priest of Helm
At 10th level, I bet those guys will bust some heads
But, you know, I've tried that before and I always miss my heavy sluggers. Take those four guys and put two single-class fighters in front of them.
Human Blackguard (don't put a blackguard in leadership role during creation; it lowers your reputation which makes everything more expensive)
Dwarven Defender Fighter
Human Inquisitor Paladin
Half-Elf Archer Ranger
Half-Elf Dragon Disciple Sorcerer
Half-orc Priest of Talos
There are more single-class fighters there than in my first thought.
Personally, if a fighter is not Serevok, Khalid, or a stalker, I don't use them.
I completed the black pits with a party of 6 imported lvl 5 sorcerers, to get past redoing the battles at the beginning, and once you got past that it was sooooooooo much fun. I was WAY op. Sorcerer are awesome. Im not usually like that, but I was having a hard time with the battle against the on human party, so I decided I would cheat.
No, with 6 sorcerers with spider spawn, your at no loss for firepower. Also polymorph self, haste, and that one spell that makes a sword for the wizard, your good. you can't go wrong with the dagger of venom, but I can't remember if that's in the black pits. Battles gan take a long time, however. Lots of running away, stoneskin, spiderspawn, run away, stonskin. Spiderspawn, run away............
Druids can present you with a lot of good options in TBP too. A berserker 7 -> druid dual, while a little frustrating to level, is rock solid. Ironskins & good armour make them hard to kill, insect swarm trivialises many fights. An Avenger would be a solid alternative.
If you reload every time someone dies the whole game is easy. I really do know why you've put so much effort and ego into a post that comes with a 'I just redo everything that doesn't work out for me' caveat.
While fighters give you the greatest damage output, BG2 and TOB still have a fairly strong emphasis on mage battles. Inquisitors cheese the issue a bit, but ultimately it helps to have a pure or dualled mage to get access to protection removal spells before mid-TOB. Otherwise your party is left standing around waiting for spell protections to wear off while being meteor swarmed, or whatever.