Think there will be something for Dorn Khan in BG:EII(Spoilers)

Barzarel

I came to think about this yesterday will there be some weapon for Dorn Khan to put him on pair with the other paladins, since he doubtfully would be able to use Holy Avenger I assume in BG: E2 seeing as if I remember right its alignment restricted to. I just wonder if he will get his own powerful weapon or if it will become possible to Corrupt the holy avenger to become a Unholy Avenger instead. Seeing as that weapon would alone by itself make other paladins able to use it far more preferable to Dorn Khan. Any thoughts on this? or has this already been talk over at the DEVs table?

Eudaemonium

My guess is that his Rancor will get some kind of upgrade path in his personal questline, seeing as it is his signature sword.

Lord_Tansheron

I don't expect them to reveal details on this before release, so as not to spoil the surprise. That being said, it would certainly make sense to add something nice for Blackguards to use, and they very well may add something. Making it Dorn-specific is possible, but not a good path I think considering that PC Blackguards will also want something to use.

Barzarel

Well just hope they have given it some thought since he will have good competition for the group slot with Korgan Bloodaxe and later Saverok in the Throne of Bhaal, that both have nice stats but also able to train Grand Mastery in their weapons. Plus at the point in the game many his boons can easily be given by spell protections instead.

Eudaemonium

That is true. I actually forgot about PC Blackguards, but they will definitely want to add something nice for them. Either way I am looking forward to kitting out my favourite half-orc.

Gallowglass

Original BG2 already contains the Soul Reaver +4, an excellent two-handed sword restricted to Evil characters, which you can find in the Underdark. This'll be ideal for Dorn from then until the end of the SoA section. I therefore don't think there's a need for a whole new item: just make Soul Reaver modestly upgradeable in ToB, and it'll be Dorn's obvious weapon-of-choice.

Eudaemonium

Isn't Soul Reaver just a +4 sword, though. One of the things that makes other top-notch weapons stand out is their unique aspects, the buffs or elemental damage, for instance.

Gallowglass

No, @Eudaemonium. I suspect you're thinking of the Warblade +4, which is indeed just a +4 sword (and isn't alignment-restricted). The Soul Reaver +4 drains the opponent's THAC0 by 2 points (no save) with every hit, which is a pretty deadly effect even against boss enemies, excellent in SoA. Allowing Cespenar to upgrade it to +5, and perhaps add a new side-effect such as some sort of resistance-buff, would make it excellent in ToB as well.

Aristillius

I hope the team doesnt worry too much about "paladins have holy avenger, therefore blackguards need bad ass sword too", but rather cocentrate on making interesting, albeit useful, items which makes for immersing gameplay. The outset shouldnt be balance, but what impacts the story and character.

Gallowglass

Good point, @Aristillius, I agree.

Lord_Tansheron

@Aristillius: That is a point of controversy. Many people are unwilling to compromise power for flavor, at least to some degree. Also, both your "interesting" and "useful" are highly subjective, and very difficult to implement to everyone's satisfaction.

artificial_sunlight

There is a unholy sword in bg2 nut of looks like a normal 2hander I go and find it on the net

Found it!
Http://www.shsforums.net/topic/28563-unholy-reaver/

Only useable by anti - paladin

Awong124

Eudaemonium said:

My guess is that his Rancor will get some kind of upgrade path in his personal questline, seeing as it is his signature sword.

In my playthrough I jacked Rancor from him and gave it to my Charname. I didn't kick him out of my party either, so he had to watch me use his personal sword to do my own dirty dirty deeds. Had to put him in his place and show him who the leader of the party was.

Gallowglass

artificial_sunlight said:

There is a unholy sword in bg2 nut of looks like a normal 2hander I go and find it on the net ...

Ah yes, I'd forgotten the Unholy Reaver, thanks for the reminder. However, it's an unexciting weapon apart from its +5 bonus. To make it Dorn's natural weapon-of-choice, the devs would need to add (or allow Cespenar to add) a bonus side-effect, such as the other top-notch weapons all have.

alnair

@Gallowglass
Or maybe Dorn's patron could grant it a new power, perhaps as the outcome of a specific quest...

[Deleted User]

Aristillius said:

The outset shouldnt be balance, but what impacts the story and character.

Barzarel

Gallowglass said:

Original BG2 already contains the Soul Reaver +4, an excellent two-handed sword restricted to Evil characters, which you can find in the Underdark. This'll be ideal for Dorn from then until the end of the SoA section. I therefore don't think there's a need for a whole new item: just make Soul Reaver modestly upgradeable in ToB, and it'll be Dorn's obvious weapon-of-choice.

Not disagreeing that Soul Reaver not a good weapon but one its very late game getting it less you jump directly forward in the chapters, also Holy Avenger is attainable early on in the game. Lastly Soul Reaver is equally useful to both warrior and Blackguards while blackguards don't get the grand mastery, while at that late point in the game their class inherent bonuses won't matter nearly as much as there will be spells to compliment their absence. Which was what I meant that I am worried Dorn Khan will be subpar to paladins, while not nearly as effective as using a pure warrior like Korgan Bloodaxe or Saverok instead.

Aristillius said:

I hope the team doesnt worry too much about "paladins have holy avenger, therefore blackguards need bad ass sword too", but rather cocentrate on making interesting, albeit useful, items which makes for immersing gameplay. The outset shouldnt be balance, but what impacts the story and character.

You have to realize there many that are not old school pen & paper players but play more hardcore power gaming style, where its about tweaking their party to its maximum setup and abilities. Where I can't help but worry that Dorn Khan won't really get his moment to shine. But again that is purely speculation on my part, but laying somewhere in-between the two segment I can't help but wonder if I would exchange him with Korgan or Saverok, in terms of usefulness.

Jarrakul

To be honest, Blackguards are already really, really good. I don't see any balance reason why they'd need a unique weapon. Their Aura of Despair is already really powerful, much moreso than the normal paladin Protection from Evil, their Absorb Health is at least as good overall as Lay On Hands because it also does damage, and they get some nice immunities and Poison Weapon for essentially nothing. I don't really think game balance is a good reason to give them a fancy unique sword. As for thematic reasons, I'd say Soul Reaver (and later Gram) is thematic enough.

Aristillius

Lord_Tansheron said:

@Aristillius: That is a point of controversy. Many people are unwilling to compromise power for flavor, at least to some degree. Also, both your "interesting" and "useful" are highly subjective, and very difficult to implement to everyone's satisfaction.

Agreed. That doesnt mean that I wouldnt prefer it tho, this is just my humble opinion after all. I think the team will achieve both fun playstyle and story driven content. I just dont want balancing between classes to be the prime motivator for different items (even though I agree that it is important) - I think the team has some talented writers, use them!

@Barzarel Yeah definately. I have never played PnP myself, I just think that quality writing/immersion is the main selling point for Baldur's Gate for me: I usually make my party as efficient as possible, *but within the confines of the game*, which is optimizing gear and trying to give my melee-CHARNAME good strength, but I also enjoy having okay wisdom and choose partymembers because I like their personality. The gameplay/tactics of the game is great - but the story is what really makes BG stand out for me.