will I still need SCS for post-patch BGEE or BG2EE (AI only)?

Ygramul

I only play no-reload games without powergaming, so the SCS mod, which to me is absolutely indispensable, boils down to largely:
- AI improvements
- some refined spells; especially meta-magic spells targeting through invisibility. (Otherwise you are DEAD once an SCS-improved mage has a MGoI up!) + re-balanced Breach (it works on Liches etc.)

(I do not use much of the improved encounters or the everyone-precast-all-protections components.)


Will these basic SCS components be a part of BGEE and BG2EE?

I would imagine the rest should remain a mod, but these enhancements are absolute necessities for the suspension of disbelief in a Forgotten Realms setting.

Night_Watch

i think SCS would be too difficult especially for beginners of the game. if anything maybe they could make it an optional difficulty (like Heart of Fury mode for the IWD games.) honestly though in my 15 years of playing BG i've never used mods so my opinion is probably moot =(

ScotGaymer

I find these posts really difficult to respond to because they are usually made by people who have LOADS of practice playing BG, or DnD, and know the rules and game inside out and as a result find the game "easy" even on the most difficult level. And thus want SCS included in it's entirety because the default game is "too easy" for them. Glad to see this doesn't appear to be you though. Lol.

Having been someone who played both BG and BG2 with SCS I can say that in my opinion SCS makes the game WAY too hard. Way too hard.

I play on normal, btw, and BG1 with SCS is really difficult but I can manage it for the most part. But BG2 with SCS completely owns me. I can't even get out of Athkatla with that mod installed. It's WAY too hard for me and that's playing on Normal.

Not everyone who plays these games is skilled enough with the game to play the game with artificial restrictions, or difficulty mods, to make the game much harder. Things like solo runs, no reload runs, and so on are things that most people who play this game won't do because they would get their backsides kicked doing it.
Like me.

I think they could certainly use SCS as a base/inspiration to make the higher difficulties more challenging and to improve the AI, but outright incorporating the mod into the game would be a hugely bad idea IMO. It would be enough to put me off buying the game.
This isn't dark souls. The point of the game isn't to break you by being insanely hard. The point is the deeply enthralling storyline and fun addictive gameplay.

I know thats pretty much what you are advocating though. So, uh yeah, I agree!

Shin

There's also something to be said for the suspension of disbelief as @Ygramul points out, i.e. enemies acting and reacting at least somewhat realistically in regards to things like:

- Mages casting stoneskin at the start of their days so they tend to have it up when combat starts (just like your mages).
- Mages using vocalize when you silence them (just like your mages).
- Enemies in general attempting to move away from cloud-based spells that are slowly killing them or to detect invisibility if someone goes invisible (just like your party).


That said, the full features of SCS would likely make the game way too difficult for most players, and leaving it as a mod shouldn't be very hurtful as the people who are disturbed by the vanilla AI shortcomings are likely to know about it already.

Ygramul

Thank you, yes. I agree that full SCS too hard (unless you are meta-gaming, using loopholes, don't mind reloading etc.).

But the core AI improvements (and a few minor fixes to the spell system) are essential.

I noticed that the Black Pits AI already shows improvements over vanilla BG:

An Orc Wizard cast Agannazar's Scorcher in the Arena at someone and proceeded to walk (hasted!) past three of my team, almost killing them. I've seen this happen twice, and only with the Scorcher, so I doubt it was a coincidence.

Even Black Pits level AI is a step up from the puny magelings of the vanilla BG.

Again, what is essential is suspension of disbelief in a credible fantasy world where magic is powerful and requires talent to use correctly.

ghostowl

It would be really nice if they would include the SCS but make it optionable..for example, when you first create your character, you would be able to choose from Easy / Core / Hard / Insane, and then there would be a checkbox with "Play with SCS difficulty" (not recommended for beginners)

So beginners won't have to use SCS, while us veterans can enjoy a more challenging game

Ygramul

SCS AI should be core, I think.

SCS enhanced encounters should be optional (possibly, left as a mod; or, as suggested, in-game option)