Are divine classes critical?

Sindyan

I have been thinking are divine classes critical in bgee and bgee 2?
I know people play solo but in full party would the lack of divine class hurt the party or will the extra non divine class just change the flavor of the party?

Lord_Tansheron

In the unmodded game, nothing is critical afaik. Even with mods you can probably cut divine fairly easily.

Kamigoroshi

The lack of any kind of divine magic users would certainly pose a higher difficulty. Although you could still take a monk along with you for some limited extra healing. In any case, healers aren't critical per se. But a party without one is rather impractical. Also, be prepared that such a playthrough would barren out most of the romance options of the games, leaving you only with Rasaad (monk), Neera (wild mage) and Hexxat (thief).

ZanathKariashi

You could easily choose one or the other exclusively, and not a whole lot would change.

The only thing divine really does that arcane can't is heal...which should never be needed, divine or otherwise, if you buff/debuff/CC wisely.

Though it depends on player experience.

Divine is more noob friendly, since it's pretty straight forward and divine classes have moderate thac0, good saves, and can cast in armor, and while they aren't utterly game-breaking, they do have enough spell variety/slots to let you get a feel for the spell system (and hopefully teach you that buffs/debuffs/CC are utterly superior to direct damage or healing spells), while not being completely useless when out of spells.

Arcane is more advanced, but in more experienced hands, is utterly superior to divine magic in every way. Hell you can even heal/buff the party via limited wish/Wish at higher levels if you have a decent amount of wisdom.

CutlassJack

Its less critical in later edition D&D games (like Icewind Dales 2) where a Bard can easilly take over as a party healer. It would be tough in both BGs though.

[Deleted User]

In BGEE, Clerics are useful for low level control (Command, Silence, Hold Person), minor buffs, and shortening your resting time. The first can be provided by mages and wands, the second can be done without or provided by potions for difficult fights, and the third only really matters if it bothers you to be spending a week at the inn between excursions.

BG2 is a similar setup, with Rings of Regeneration making it easier to do without a bevy of healing spells. They do get Chaotic Commands, which is a handy immunity spell, but you can work around not having it.

In short, they are not critical, but a single divine class can provide utility, save you some potions, and can save your mages some spell slots spent on shared spells that they can use just as well (dispel magic, true sight, etc.). My rule of thumb is that having more than one divine spellcaster is overkill, and having your one be multiclass or dual class works just fine.

Corvino

There is a fair bit of overlap with arcane casters, this is true. However, the plethora of low-level buffs available is very useful, as are the resistances and immunities that can be imparted - Chaotic Commands, Death Ward, Negative Plane Protection and so on.

As has been said, nothing is essential. Having at least 1 divine caster, even a multiclass, will make the game a lot simpler though.

smeagolheart

I think in BG1, divine isn't very critical until maybe the later acts. You can get by with jahiera as your only divine caster, you don't need a cleric. In BG2, a cleric is a lot more valuable.

FinneousPJ

Command, Hold Person are totally worth it.

elminster

You'd probably have to buy a lot of potions. Also expect a higher than usual number of days rested. The rod of resurrection can be used by anyone and it can handle healing in some of the more serious battles.

Wilbur

FinneousPJ said:

Command, Hold Person are totally worth it.

Arcane magic user can also cast Hold Person.

Corvino

I didn't realise how powerful cleric spells were at low level until I ran a cleric/illusionist in multiplayer. Being able to use Command, Hold Person and Sleep multiple times per day from very early on trivialises a lot of fights.

The friend I was playing with was new to the game and commented on how easy core-rules BG was. This may have been because none of our enemies was conscious at any point.

elminster

Wilbur said:

FinneousPJ said:

Command, Hold Person are totally worth it.

Arcane magic user can also cast Hold Person.

The mages version is also slightly better than the cleric version because it has an ever so slight saving throw advantage (-1) and a shorter casting time (5 vs 3).

SionIV

The divine casters have several uses, including healing and throwing hold spells. But the most important and amazing part comes from their buffs.

Death Ward - No more instant deaths.
Chaotic Command - Probably the most useful spell in the game.
Protection from Fire/Cold/Electricity - Not going to say no to being immune to different elements.
Remove fear - Great for dragons.
Zone of Sweet Air - A very underrated and powerful spell, always have one memorized.
DUHM - Free stats, wonderful if you're a F/C but also nice if you're a pure class cleric for the improved AC.
Free Action - Wonderful against other casters, spiders and enemies that can stun or slow.
Protection from Evil - What is that? Your summoned demon won't attack my team?

Healing spells, summons and some offensive magic is useful and really nice (Especially Skeletal warriors) but a cleric buffing up a fighter, that is one dervish of destruction.

ZanathKariashi

@Elminster

The mage version only hits 1 target, the cleric version hits 1d4 targets.

elminster

Both version can affect multiple enemies.

atcDave

I wouldn't choose to do it, but I'm sure BG is doable without divine magic. BG2 I'm less sure about (!).

Schneidend

I really like having every archetype. Warrior, Rogue, Priest, Arcanist.

ZanathKariashi

It's the other way around...Divine magic is ONLY kind of useful in BG1...in BG2, arcane magic is better in every way. If you die or even take damage in BG2, you need to go back and learn to play a mage properly this time.

Of course that's not to say divine is useless...it's just completely inferior to arcane magic, but having any magic is better then having no magic.


Druid = Poor mans's cleric
Cleric = Poor man's Bard
Bard = Poor man's mage
Mage/Sorcerer = GOD

Durenas

casting bless at low levels is amazing, as is chant.

I'm rolling a cleric/mage and i'm going through BG2, and the number of buffs he can throw up is sick. Bless/Chant/Haste/Protection from Evil 10' radius/Remove Fear/Chaotic Commands/Stoneskin

SionIV

ZanathKariashi said:

It's the other way around...Divine magic is ONLY kind of useful in BG1...in BG2, arcane magic is better in every way. If you die or even take damage in BG2, you need to go back and learn to play a mage properly this time.

Of course that's not to say divine is useless...it's just completely inferior to arcane magic, but having any magic is better then having no magic.


Druid = Poor mans's cleric
Cleric = Poor man's Bard
Bard = Poor man's mage
Mage/Sorcerer = GOD

There are some very useful spells in the clerics arsenal that can easily compare to the best mage spells. Death ward and chaotic Command are some of the divine spells that are more useful than most of the arcane ones.

FrozenCells

For BG1, I think they're good to have if only for the healing. They're a lot more hardy than mages early in the game and level fairly quickly, particularly the Druid, so they pull their own weight fairly well. The Clerics ability to wear heavy armour gives it good survivability. Actually the class balance in BG1 is pretty good, I wouldn't say that there are any "critical" classes. You can be very unorthodox with your class setup.

BG2 is quite annoying to do without any cleric due to the considerable amount of undead and level-draining enemies, as well as mages inflicting status effects. Druids can be and usually are skipped since the sole Druid NPC is well...Cernd, and they have a pretty bad spell-list in general compared to both Clerics and the more decent Druids from Icewind Dale. You can get by though mostly thanks to items that grant buffs/protections/regenerations, you don't really HAVE to take a divine class. However, I'd recommending taking at least a multiclassed Cleric (of any multiclass variation). Both useful and fun.

mjs

Silence is a handy anti mage spell at many levels

bill_zagoudis

they're very useful for sure,critical is nothing because the game is easy once you've learned how to hanle each type of enemy

jsaving

In BG1, clerics are useful at the beginning of the game because their "command" spell takes effect without a saving throw, which limits any reloading time you might otherwise need to do. Cure light wounds is also handy if you want to minimize your chances of having a random encounter (though if you're the kind of player who likes random encounters, this can actually be a liability rather than an asset).

In BG2, clerics are useful because they can get rid of negative levels and guard against instant-death effects. Reloading can do the same thing, but gets tiresome given the sheer number of enemies at certain points of the game capable of inflicting them on you.

To sum up, you don't *need* a divine caster in either game, but it's convenient to have at least a multiclassed cleric in the party.

Zarakinthish

There is one divine spell I can't recommend enough in BG2: False Dawn. Vampires are supremely annoying, and False Dawn in my experience is one of the best spells you can use against them.

element

in bg1 its pretty easy to go without, b2 maybe a little harder but still easily do able. They certainly come in handy though

BelgarathMTH

I think that having Remove Fear as a first level spell is enough to justify my wanting a cleric right away. It sure does help against Tarnesh, Nimbul, and lots of other mages. And the cleric has spells I want available to my party at every spell level. On a lot of the mage duplication versions of those spells, the mage doesn't get them until the next highest spell level.

And, I'd sure hate to play some sections of SoA and ToB without Chaotic Commands spells and Death Wards!

I always aim for no reloads when I play, so that might be something that makes me think differently from somebody who doesn't care about reloading. If you don't care how many times you reload, you can pretty much do anything you want.

There are also a lot of roleplaying reasons why I like clerics. The "just nuke everything" mage/sorcerer strategy bothers me, probably because of the Star Wars influence with the idea of "turning to the Dark side" and all that.