Ascension: The Ending ToB Deserves
shawne
Member Posts: 3,239
Dear creators,
First of all, let me express my deepest gratitude and support for this project. Unlike your typical "Baldur's Gate" fans, I was actually introduced to the series only a year ago via GOG - that's not going to stop me from picking up both Enhanced Editions, because I believe in what you're doing and I've enjoyed the games very much.
I don't know if this request has been made by others, or how the fanbase in general feels about it, but I would like to ask that David Gaider's "Ascension" mod be incorporated into your Enhanced Edition of BG2 - or, at the very least, that the plot-based aspects of the mod be integrated into the base game.
In my original playthrough, "Ascension" was the only modification I installed - and I did so specifically because Gaider worked on the original games and he made some very good points as to why the ending of "Throne of Bhaal" wasn't quite up to snuff.
What makes "Ascension" stand out in my eyes is how the smaller touches Gaider added lent depth and color to the characters and the plot: for example, when Sarevok is accepted into your party, you are able to return his sword - reclaimed at the very beginning of BG2 - and in doing so the weapon becomes enhanced. It's a moment where you're either bonding with the villain of the first game or coldly reminding him of his place (depending on how you're roleplaying the lead).
Then you have Sarevok's dialogues with Imoen - again, varying depending on your relationship with him, but no less important for cementing his position within the party.
And finally, there's the battle with Amelyssan. In which, rather than face generic Elementals and Slayer Shadows, you are forced to confront the Greatest Hits of your villains' gallery: Irenicus, Bodhi, Imoen as the Slayer, Sarevok, and finally the Five. But the battle changes depending on your actions - if you're of Good alignment, Balthazar assists you; if you're Evil, you can sway Bodhi to your side and use her against Irenicus. Sarevok either betrays you or stays by your side (once again, an outcome decided entirely by your interactions).
This version of the ending allows players to reflect on the journey they've taken, the challenges they've faced, and the greater battle yet to come. That the epilogues were restored to their original length after being cut during production is an added bonus.
Having played through "Throne of Bhaal" with "Ascension", I literally cannot imagine the story ending in any other way. It is, in my opinion, the ending this saga deserves, and a proper culmination of the player's journey throughout the trilogy.
First of all, let me express my deepest gratitude and support for this project. Unlike your typical "Baldur's Gate" fans, I was actually introduced to the series only a year ago via GOG - that's not going to stop me from picking up both Enhanced Editions, because I believe in what you're doing and I've enjoyed the games very much.
I don't know if this request has been made by others, or how the fanbase in general feels about it, but I would like to ask that David Gaider's "Ascension" mod be incorporated into your Enhanced Edition of BG2 - or, at the very least, that the plot-based aspects of the mod be integrated into the base game.
In my original playthrough, "Ascension" was the only modification I installed - and I did so specifically because Gaider worked on the original games and he made some very good points as to why the ending of "Throne of Bhaal" wasn't quite up to snuff.
What makes "Ascension" stand out in my eyes is how the smaller touches Gaider added lent depth and color to the characters and the plot: for example, when Sarevok is accepted into your party, you are able to return his sword - reclaimed at the very beginning of BG2 - and in doing so the weapon becomes enhanced. It's a moment where you're either bonding with the villain of the first game or coldly reminding him of his place (depending on how you're roleplaying the lead).
Then you have Sarevok's dialogues with Imoen - again, varying depending on your relationship with him, but no less important for cementing his position within the party.
And finally, there's the battle with Amelyssan. In which, rather than face generic Elementals and Slayer Shadows, you are forced to confront the Greatest Hits of your villains' gallery: Irenicus, Bodhi, Imoen as the Slayer, Sarevok, and finally the Five. But the battle changes depending on your actions - if you're of Good alignment, Balthazar assists you; if you're Evil, you can sway Bodhi to your side and use her against Irenicus. Sarevok either betrays you or stays by your side (once again, an outcome decided entirely by your interactions).
This version of the ending allows players to reflect on the journey they've taken, the challenges they've faced, and the greater battle yet to come. That the epilogues were restored to their original length after being cut during production is an added bonus.
Having played through "Throne of Bhaal" with "Ascension", I literally cannot imagine the story ending in any other way. It is, in my opinion, the ending this saga deserves, and a proper culmination of the player's journey throughout the trilogy.
46
Comments
Cannot change existing content due to contractual limits
So Ascension should be impossible to implement.
Additionally, this is one of those things that I think could actually have a chance to be approved. Gaider's work is somewhat renowned amongst the BG community, as is the fact that ToB was severely lacking compared to its predecessors. I definitely enjoyed the content of Ascension. Honestly, I believe that AI improvements would have been some of the best things to enhance about the BG games (such as those provided by SCS and SCSII), but it seems that very little will be changed as far as AI is concerned. As for the content of the Ascension mod, however, I don't see it as impossible to implement. As @Aranneas said, the Ascension mod is quite old and there are outstanding compatibility issues with more recent mods (if I'm not mistaken). This doesn't affect its possible implementation in my eyes. The content itself can be implemented from scratch by the dev team within the game (so long as Mr. Gaider allows the team to use said content).
If this is something you're really adamant about (I'm personally very much in support of it), the best way to show this support to the devs is probably here on this thread. Make comments, "agree" with the posts here that you agree with, and "like" those that you like, etc.
I don't think it's a MUST to include this with BG:EE, but it should be updated atleast. What is necessary are things which repair the game and cosmetically buff. Ascension is a content mod and therefore not necessary to the core game content.
But I would like to summon all my Candlekeep friends to kill enemies from the past.
@jaysl659: Thanks for the hope spot.
There are other mods by the same fellow that edit the ending though, atleast I'm pretty damn sure they were made by him. :P
EIT: Nevermind, they aren't. xD
In regards to those other mods: tougher tactical battles should definitely be no more than an optional add-on, simply because not everyone is looking for that level of challenge (and some of these really are a challenge even for very tactical players). The Bhaalspawn powers you could bring in imo, but they don't really address ToB's issues directly.
I think the Bhaalspawn powers are plot-related, though, which is why I really enjoyed them: you're basically undergoing the same process as Amelyssan, gathering up Bhaal's essence through the Pocket Plane trials, so of course you should manifest new abilities. That's why it ultimately comes down to you, Amelyssan and Imoen.
Yeah! Turnabout, Redemption, The Longer Road, Wheels of Prophecy.
Too many to list. I thought Turnabout and Redemption were by David Gaider.
Turnabout and Redemption were both the source of so much argument in the modding community at the time that it was hard to get them confused if you were active at all (which I still was a bit)
What happened then? They sound like good mods to me from the descriptions. I don't know how Redemption and The Longer Road would be compatible..
It just seems like an unrealistic over-the-top addon to the story but I had a whole lot of fun doing it.
Yeah, that was a joke to all you who are about to go ballistic on me.
I hope we get a word from the dev team about this soon and in the meantime, please keep this thread alive and add your "agrees" to the OP.
And yet... it seems to me that more than anything, incorporating "Ascension" into "Throne of Bhaal" is a symbolic gesture: here is something that was supposed to be in the game, and wasn't, and its absence damaged the way ToB is perceived even today. Much like all those unfinished/broken questlines in BG1 that may or may not be fixed, it's technically true that these things constitute changes to the existing content - but in these specific cases the existing content is itself incomplete, for whatever reason. It's not "addition", in my opinion, so much as it is "restoration". And isn't that part of the creators' mission statement?
Ok, I'm turning serious mode now. To be honest, plot elements from ascension are awesome, but there is other element that should be took in account: difficulty level. It's way too hard for new player, hell, it's to hard for me, in spite playing BG for years. So I don't think that adding it is good idea. Unless you do that with only plot content.
To be blunt, I think it's one of the impossible requests. Contract that restricts changes for original content is a bitch.