Balanced team for my Paladin? BG 1 tutu
Doublehat
Member Posts: 8
So yeah, as I said in my introduction thread, I'm playing a paladin swinging a bastard sword and a shield right now and I can't for the life of me make up a balanced team. Should i use the Canon team, but then I don't have a cleric? Or can jaheira act as a Healer or does she make a better tank? Any suggestions?
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If you're playing a sword & shield character though, don't put any proficiency points into sword & shield style for Pete's sake. Anything but that. Ranged weapons, spare blunt weapon, literally anything else.
But equally well there are other combinations which would work fine. As a paladin you have the melee part covered, so you really want to just add a healer, mage and thief. The main problem with some of the non-canon options is that they can be hard to find (or take a while to get to unless you really focus on getting them).
Jaheira (and Khalid who I still actually like) because Jaheira turns into a crazy psychotic cougar later. And Minsc because of his later affiliation with Aerie who won't ever shut the fork up about her wings - which I get, traumatic experience, but dude my sisters been sisternapped and then my souls been ripped out of me leaving me at risk of turning into a raging kill monster when I sleep; give the wings bullcrap a rest!
So yeah. Canon party bye bye.
And in doing so I thought to myself that I wont have enough party members left to have a "well rounded" good aligned party. But actually I do mostly.
Current BGEE playthru I am playing with this party:-
CHARNAME
Kivan
Ajantis (thought I suppose Ajantis is redundant for you...)
Rasaad (though Coran would slot in here nicely I think for you)
Imoen (dualled to mage)
and finally Yeslick.
If you don't mind dipping into Neutral characters I would suggest that also Xan (to replace or stand in for Rasaad/Coran or Immy) and Branwen (replacing or standing in for Yeslick) are good neutral aligned earlier game characters. Don't forget Alora is good aligned too. Given Ajantis' redundancy I can suggest perhaps using Quayle?
Yeslick
Coran
Khalid
Jaheira
or (if you don´t want to use Khalid and Jaheira)
Imoen - dualled to mage at level 7
Yeslick
Coran
Kivan/Shar-Teel
Edwin
Since your Inquisitor is already a melee fighter, you don't need both Jaheira and Khalid in the party. She tends to be more useful (especially considering Khalid's constant morale failures), so I'd suggest getting rid of him.
Imoen is the best thief in the game, but if you don't want to use her (or have dual-classed her to Mage), Safana is a close second. Coran would also be a good choice but you won't be able to reach him for a while.
Branwen is easily reached at the Nashkel Carnival, and can serve as the party healer.
As for Mages... you have several options. Dual-classing Imoen is a common tactic (especially since BG2 gives her that build by default); of the others, Neera is easiest to pick up.
Another possibility would be to drop Jaheira/Khalid at Nashkel and recruit Minsc instead as your secondary fighter; completing his quest will add Dynaheir to your party, but as an Invoker there will be spells she won't be able to learn (which is why you have two Mages: configure their spellbooks to complement each other).
1) CHARNAME - Paladin, main tank
2) Imoen - Thief dualled to Mage at level 6, put skill points in Find Traps and Open Locks, just avoid Durlag until she gets her Thief levels back
3) Finch (or Gavin) - Cleric, healer and secondary tank
4) Dynaheir (or Valerie) - Sorceress (use "Level 1 NPCs" to change Dynaheir class)
5) Kivan - Archer (use "Level 1 NPCs" to change his kit)
6) Add an NPC of your choice here
or even better
Use the 6th slot to take various NPCs and do their quests (especially if you are using "BG1 NPC Project")
IMO the first 5 NPCs above form already a balanced team, leaving you free to do whatever you like with the 6th slot.
But if you might allow me to keep this topic kind of rolling. I've been thinking about rolling a lawful evil generalist mage instead. Any recommendations? I'm just curious. Thanks beforehand.
The thief role can go one of two ways: Montaron would make a good ranged attacker, since he gets the halfling bonus to slings and saves. But if you want your thief on the front lines (as a backstabber, for example), I recommend dual-classing Shar-Teel.
If you don't want to handle all the spellcasting yourself, you may want to consider recruiting either Edwin or Baeloth. The choice depends on how you want to manage your magic: because Baeloth can only be recruited if your PC is level 5, he'll turn up with most of his spell choices already made for him. You can configure your own memorized spells to make up for any blind spots he may have, or take Edwin instead and customize both casters.
And finally, if you're looking for another fighter, Kagain is very easy to recruit and has a few useful traits (dwarf saves plus regeneration).
PC
Xzar
Monty
Shar-teel
Viconia
Kagain
it's not overpowered, but it'll blast through the game without many problems. You could even call it an evil canon (though edwin for shar-teel would probably be more "evil canon")
Someone will inevitably now say that a dual class is better, but then you won't actually be playing a mage through BG1 tutu, you'll be playing a fighter.
Kagain and Montaron (fighters)
Shar-Teel (thieving)
Viconia (healing)
Edwin (secondary mage)
PC: Generalist mage
Viconia - Got her as soon as i got to FAI
Shar Teel - Getting her as soon as I get to beargost
Safana - Because Flirt thief
Edwin - Not sure when I get too him though
Kagain - for a second fighter
BTW, two questions, what weapons fo Shar Teel and Kagain use? And would it possible too keep Immy in an evil party, because I really like her as a character?
I also noticed that when you play Vanilla baldur's gate as a mage you only get two spells in the beginning, but when playing tutu I got like 6 or 7 (can't remember) at level one. Weird.
Unless it's for roleplay reasons I can't see a big reason to go pure generalist mage. If you want a generalist then a dual with a couple of levels of fighter or thief is easy to accomplish, even if only for a few bonus HP and better weapon selection. But I'm a powergamer at heart and let it get the better of me.
2. Imoen doesn't have any conflicts with evil NPCs, but she will leave the party if your Reputation gets too low - just keep it in the 5-9 range and you should be fine.
1 half healer
1 mage
is i think the most you need to be effective so
coran/montaron as half thief or even dualed imoen/shar-teel
yeslick/jaheira as healer
any mage the best edwin
your pal
usefull others
coran/kivan/shar-teel/imoen dualed all with bows
minsc as dps/kagain as tank/
viconia low con
shar-teel low con
edwin mage
safana thief
your mage mage
kagain only one with high hp
Branwen, Faldorn, Safana, Xan, Quayle
Convert the heathens by setting a heroic example! They'll totally thank you for it later.
2.) Yeslick
3.) Coran
4.) Faldorn
5.) Minsc
6.) Dynaheir
Inquisitor and Yeslick have dispel magic, Minsc has berserk to ignore confusion / charm effects. Coran is sick dps, and Faldorn is the only level 10 divine spellcaster in the game. Insect Plague makes short work of EVERYTHING.
1. You (paladin, a well-rounded fighter with some cleric abilities)
2. Imoen (satisfies your thief needs)
3. Yeslick (cleric who can tank - sufficient for your cleric needs)
4. Dynaheir (lawful good mage)
5. Kivan (archer who can tank)
6. Either Coran (backup archer) or Jaheira (backup healer)
But if you have some other suggestion, please do tell. I am pondering on running a full female party just for shits and giggles, by killing off the likes of Jaheira's elf warrior boyfriend who I can't remember the name of at the moment (Brain fart sorry). Does that work for only using jaheira?
Shar-teel will always have a decent AC given the right armor and a good THAC0, but her weakness lies in a small HP pool. There's not a huge amount you can do about this in BG1 though. A lot of people dual her to a thief and use her in a strike-and-fade role.
Kagain with the gauntlets of dexterity is a tanking powerhouse. With them he is the complete package - AC, THAC0, HP and regeneration all rolled into one. His mediocre Str is offset by his ability to master axes, giving good bonuses to THAC0 and damage. Without the gauntlets of dexterity his AC is pretty poor though, and he will take a lot of hits.
I think it's better not to get hit in the first place by having good tactics, or use expendable summons when you need someone to take the bullet. The only tank I really need is someone who can soak up arrows and anyone with enough missile AC can do that. I've played with Viconia as my only "tank" and she worked out fine. In my opinion having high Dex across the board (with one guy using the gloves) is more important than having high Con.
I still ensure I have at least one tank in any party built along a World of Warcraft maxim: It must take at least 3 hits from a boss to kill a tank. The 3 hit limit means you've got time to heal up (or chug an invisibility potion), and you'll almost certainly have infrequent runs of bad luck where you will get hit 2-3 times in a row which will kill low HP tanks before you can react. Shar-teel can be used as an "avoidance tank", avoiding getting hit due to low AC. Runs of successive hits which will inevitably occur in a chance-based game can cause heavy or lethal spike damage.
As for Kagain, there are only two other NPC fighters in BG1 or BG:EE who can get above specialised and the THAC0 and damage bonuses it entails. One is Khalid who has the same low Str as Kagain, the other being Shar-Teel who is a bit of a glass cannon due to her low Con. Kagain's THAC0 with mastery is equivalent to Minsc's with specialisation despite Minsc's Str, Minsc does have an edge in damage though.
I'm not sure you can even tank Sarevok effectively. His THAC0 and damage is high enough that even Kagain doesn't last many rounds against him and he's going to end up kiting anyways if your party takes long. I find it more effective to just tag him with a dispelling arrow and then have one person run him around. No need to blow healing potions fighting a losing melee battle when he falls easily enough to arrows. Same with Aec'Letec - you just need someone to keep him occupied while you finish off the cultists and that doesn't have to mean taking all his hits.
IMO all similarly scary melee opponents are better dealt with in a risk-free way by pelting them with ranged attacks while distracting them with a fast character. It works for ogres at level 1, and it works for Sarevok at the end. Things that are immune to missile attacks are a different story, but doom guards for example can be backstabbed and dispatched risk-free. You can even backstab mustard jellies, weirdly enough.
You don't need to get above specialized to do more damage than Kagain. Dorn easily beats him and uses a better class of weapons, although he's only an option in BGEE. Other fighters bring much more utility - Jaheira and Yeslick have spells, Coran and Montaron bring thief skills and archery abilities. As for tanking abilities, Viconia can be surprisingly good because a potion of magic resistance will make her immune to magic and her naturally high dex with a shield makes her almost immune to missiles. Not a great fighter, but for soaking up spells and stuff she's incredible.
With the right buffs and a high HP/low AC character you can definitely tank Sarevok. It's easiest with fighter/mage hybrids due to stoneskin/mirror image, but with protection from evil, defensive harmony & improved invisibility you become adequately hard to hit. He'll still land a number of hits on you, but you can usually whittle him down quickly. A potion of power for bonus HP is good too.
Yeah, they're great for their casting ability, not so much for their melee skills. I think low innate dex is a big drawback for any front-liner in BGEE, because low dex means you have to use the dex gloves which means you can't use the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise. Low strength is not a big deal because you can get the belt of giant strength, and in any serious fight you'll have a potion running that puts your strength in the 20s. For this reason I think Monty is seriously underrated - decent fighter stats all around and dex especially, shorty save bonuses and does massive damage on a backstab. Give him some potions of invisibility and even Dorn will be hard-pressed to match his damage output in a fight, and he's much tankier. Combined with the fact that he's available at the start of the game and is a crack shot with a sling at that point makes him one of my favorite front liners. Charming personality, too.
Good luck finding a fighter/mage NPC! I'm just teasing, I know what you mean and I've actually been considering the idea of having one of the mage NPCs buff up and tank. Imoen has surprisingly decent stats for a tank even if her melee skills are lacking, but it seems risky without access to a helmet. And as always the question comes down to - why bother taking hits at all? It's not like you need the extra damage that comes from one guy meleeing him. Maybe your min/maxed F/M charname with a slew of buffs can 1v1 him and come out ahead, but on the other hand, my naked NPC with boots of speed can "tank" him indefinitely. My thieves can backstab him and disappear before he can swing back. I don't mean that as criticism of your playstyle and you can certainly take the MMO approach and beat him down with raw power but I find it much more rewarding to take a tactical approach and stack the deck in such a way that power becomes irrelevant.
In any case, buffing up with stoneskin and mirror image and tanking is something that Kagain can't do, which I believe was my original point. Even a Con of 25 and the boatload of hitpoints it brings is no substitute for good ol' stoneskin. Based on the Sarevok discussion, it sounds like you agree with me that despite Kagain's excellent Con score it isn't enough to match the tanking abilities of an arcane caster and certainly pales in comparison to the naked bard who never gets hit