Questions for those who played unmodded BG1, and this

mister

Since I'm thinking of buying this.

#1 How much new content is added to the original maps (new encounters, loot, equipment)?

#2 How is the game balance compared to the original? Is there much retuning on exp giveout, encounter difficulty, and do the new classes and kits make the game too hard or easy, particularly in early-game?

#3 I've heard of out-of-depth random encounters in reviews (dread wolves @ level 1?). I never liked to install tutu on bg1 because the BG2 engine would carry over its monster generation table, which resulted in out-of-depth encounters not intended by the campaign. I'm wondering if this issue was inherited in EE as well without being corrected, since it uses the BG2 engine as a base.

#4 Has the exp cap changed from the original?

#5 Have the bonuses from stats changed at all? I remember there were some discrepancies in the original between the actual game and the manual and rule-set.

#6 Same question about weapon proficiencies. I assume it switched over to BG2's (the old were stronger because you got the same bonuses on more gear), so how does that affect the game in practice?

#7 Any new recorded dialog added to old npc's (playable or otherwise)?

#8 I know they didn't have the source assets, but did they try enhancing the old graphics through any post-processing filters? I think I read somewhere that they were thinking of trying that.

Thanks

elminster

1: There are a handful of new encounters in the original map. You find new items both in original maps and new maps.

2. Its certainly easier than the original. They have balanced some of the kits (like totemic druid summons) but you do gain access to the BG2 spellbook which makes things certainly easier than the original. Wild animals do tend to behave more intelligently than in the original however. I'm not aware of any retuning of XP rewards.

3. Occasionally you will get a difficult encounter like that however I've been testing the BGEE beta (version 1.2) and this doesn't seem to happen very much. So the upcoming patch should address any problems here.

4. The experience cap is the same as TOTSC (161,000).

5. The bonuses from stats haven't changed from BG1 with the exception of intelligence. As of the upcoming patch (and this more relates to bg2) a characters intelligence will determine whether or not they can memorize scrolls from a particular level (they can always use potions to pump it up temporarily though).

6. Weapon proficiencies however have been altered from BG2 to provide (among other things) a 1/2 attack per round bonus for grandmastery. So there is an overall increase of 1 APR over basic weapon proficiency if you go grandmastery. However the game does use the specialized weapons proficiency approach (rather than broad BG1 categories like "Large swords" etc).

7. No just some text.

8. Yes they did use filtering but I'm really not qualified to explain it.

ajwz

1. Virtually no new encounters to existing areas, except stuff directly related to the new npcs. A decent amount of loot has been added pretty much throughout the entire game.

2. No real change in experience, except for extra quests releated to the new npcs (which are relatively low in xp in comparison to thier expected level) Difficults is moderate, about in line with the original game (some encounters easy, others much more challenging) The black pits adventure is probably the most challenging adventure in there now.
Whether or not the new kits make the game easier or harder depends on which kit you pick. As in the original however, mages and sorcerors are weak in the early game, whereas fighters, rangers and paladins are stronger. At around 4-5 classes tend to even out a little.
Worth noting is that some kits (such as assassin for example) don't really have access to their main benefits in the levels you are likely to reach in bg1.

3. A lot of these encounters exist in the original, since they are not scaled to level, but rather to area. If you walk between areas in cloakwood, you are just as likely to get ambushed by wyverns if you are at level 1 or level 8.
One issue people were having at launch was that encounters were not spawning enough enemies to scale with your party level. (2 hobgoblins would spawn for example, rather than 6)
I believe this issue has been fixed in subsequent patches however, and have not actually encountered any issues myself.

4. No change to xp cap from the original ToTSC cap (161k)

5. No change from the original, assuming that you played the original with the most up to date patch. If you are wandering about the specifics, the game manuals have been completely rewritten, and are included to download with the game.

6. The game uses bg2 weapon profiencies (you have to put points seperately in longswords and bastards swords rather than just putting points in "large swords") You also get to pick the bg2 fighting styles as well (two weapon fighting, sword and sheild fighting, and so on

7. Old NPCs have new dialogue, but largely only when reacting to the new npcs and new content.

8. Yes. New renderer, new graphics engine, 1pp graphics. Lots of misc changes. Check out some of the screenshots for comparison.

mister

Thanks for the answers. Still on the fence atm. Was hoping they had done a bit more with the old game.

Lord_Tansheron

The trouble is that they are under contractual limitations preventing them from modifying the old content. They are allowed to add new things, but when it comes to changes, well, their hands are pretty tied. A lot of the new content is also tied up in the Black Pits extra scenario, which doesn't really have a lot to do with the main BG story. If you like that sort of thing, it's probably worth getting the EE.

mister

Was thinking more like new things to find in the more barren wilderness areas. Denser content.

Just thought of another question: does the difficulty slider differ from BG2, do you get more options?

Sed

@mister
I would install SCS and start a game from scratch. Then you get a really new and challenging experience.

Lord_Tansheron

@mister: There are few gameplay changes, most of the stuff is bug fixing and quality of life. The difficulty slider remains the same. As @Sed said though, if you are a veteran BG player, consider SCS to be the standard, in terms of difficulty.

mister

Shame about the difficulty slider-- I remember in BG2 you could not get a setting that both rolled max hp on leveling, but did NOT apply damage scaling (I think you only took 75% damage on normal?). I'm wondering if this is soft-coded/moddable now.

I remember early on the idea of a highly customisable game with tons of tickboxes being a highly discussed and supported feature request, but I guess they hadn't the time for most of those.

Thanks for the scs recommendation. I seldom go for gameplay mods though.

Lord_Tansheron

Max HP are definitely moddable. Alternatively you can slide down whenever you level-up, then slide back up when it's done.

SCS does have a gazillion customization options.

elminster

Lord_Tansheron said:

@mister: There are few gameplay changes, most of the stuff is bug fixing and quality of life. The difficulty slider remains the same. As @Sed said though, if you are a veteran BG player, consider SCS to be the standard, in terms of difficulty.

Actually the difficulty slider has been made more generous compared to the original bg1 (and totsc). In the original playing on "easy" (slider to the left I guess) meant you got only a percentage of the experience you would otherwise (I think it was a third, maybe 1/2). BG2 and BGEE changed that.

Lord_Tansheron

@elminster: he specifically asked if the slider differed from BG2

That being said, it seems the game is now 75% off on Beamdog *and* Steam, so I guess that is quite the incentive...

mister

if I get it off beamdog do I get access to the latest beta?

elminster

Lord_Tansheron said:

@elminster: he specifically asked if the slider differed from BG2

That being said, it seems the game is now 75% off on Beamdog *and* Steam, so I guess that is quite the incentive...

Hmm...lol I'm really not having a great day for actually reading things fully before I post

Lord_Tansheron

@mister: I do believe so, yes, but you should check with someone more in the know to make sure. Also keep in mind that Steam may be late in patching etc., as the process is handled by a third party. Since the price is essentially the same, you should probably strongly consider Beamdog.

the_spyder

As far as Tutu causing unusual random encounters, I remember playing the un-modded original BG and still occasionally encountering Wyvern at far too low a level. And encountering a basilisk at any level can ruin your day if you aren't fully prepared.

All in all, I'd recommend the EE version to the OP. You do get new NPCs. There are quite a few bug fixes that were implemented. If nothing else, it loads quicker. And some of the tweaks to the UI are quite nice (if superficial). There are a few new areas also. And the BG2/BG:EE engine is just nicer than the BG1 engine (more spells, kits, class choices, proficiencies etc...).

just my two cents.

zur312

Since I'm thinking of buying this.

#1 How much new content is added to the original maps (new encounters, loot, equipment)?
-not much

#2 How is the game balance compared to the original? Is there much retuning on exp giveout, encounter difficulty, and do the new classes and kits make the game too hard or easy, particularly in early-game?
-it is much easier

#3 I've heard of out-of-depth random encounters in reviews (dread wolves @ level 1?). I never liked to install tutu on bg1 because the BG2 engine would carry over its monster generation table, which resulted in out-of-depth encounters not intended by the campaign. I'm wondering if this issue was inherited in EE as well without being corrected, since it uses the BG2 engine as a base.
-dunno but it is still easy

#4 Has the exp cap changed from the original?
-no

#5 Have the bonuses from stats changed at all? I remember there were some discrepancies in the original between the actual game and the manual and rule-set.
-dunno what you ask but manual was wrong in many places and descriptions in game are better now

#6 Same question about weapon proficiencies. I assume it switched over to BG2's (the old were stronger because you got the same bonuses on more gear), so how does that affect the game in practice?
-it is easier dual wield + dual wield specialization

#7 Any new recorded dialog added to old npc's (playable or otherwise)?
-no

Dino

Above all the spell effects (now with the BG2 look) and inventory appearance and 'paperdolls' have been mightily improved over the vanilla BG.

mister

zur312 said:

-it is much easier

Ack.

-dunno what you ask but manual was wrong in many places and descriptions in game are better now

I think I vaguely recall something about saving throws changing with high wisdom, or possibly int.

elminster said:

6. Weapon proficiencies however have been altered from BG2 to provide (among other things) a 1/2 attack per round bonus for grandmastery.

So like BG1 then. I wonder if in BG2:EE they will go back to a missing half attack.

Sounds like there are some good reasons for me to get it, although those who never played it the first time around will get more out of it. I just feel they missed a lot of opportunities to improve things, and to keep the campaign balanced with the new powers, so it's not like throwing a fox in a chicken coup. I wonder if they ever intended to revisit the repository of feature requests, or if that is less of an archive and more of a graveyard now...

alnair

mister said:

if I get it off beamdog do I get access to the latest beta?

You will, as soon as Phase III of The Road to v1.2 begins

Aristillius

Why would you say it is much easier @zur312? Not my experience, the core mechanics are the same only with a few tweaks.

Lord_Tansheron

@Aristillius: because the new kits/classes/spells of the BG2 engine add a lot of power. Also some of the new items are quite amazing (hello, Stupefier!).

Either way, anyone who has played BG before should absolutely be running SCS anyway, and that is sufficiently difficult to make it a challenge still

kamuizin

1 - if that's your sole reason to buy the game, don't. They added some new items, 5 new classes, 3 NPCs and personal quests for those NPCs and that's all. You can get variety of NPCs through mods and the same applies to items. also there's a bunch of mods that add new classes. The new content is nearly to non-existant, they can't do much about it in reason of the choices of Beamdog's employee, but that's it, however let me put it clear that this is only my sole opinion and others can maybe disagree with what i put here.

2 - game balance is the same to me. The new classes aren't power breaking, not anymore than kensai/mages and fighter/druids.

3 - not a solid knowledge about this issue, so i prefer to not comment.

4 - already stated by others previous.

5 - they reworked the structure of the game, yes. Now grandmastery does what grandmastery is intended to do for example, i believe that some other few missing strings where attended as well.

6 - weapon proficience is based on BG2 as well, the entire engine is based on the later ToB BG2 engine in fact.

7 - Some new dialogues (with no voice) between the old and new NPCs, and that's all.

8 - They cleaned the graphics but didn't totally reworked them, neither they intend to make new graphic avatar skins for the game, i think, but this need confirmation. The UI is what mostly changed from the old and these EE versions, also the game is now compatible with the last systems and computers without generating glitchs on the install or during the game (at least after the new patch be released that's the intent).

elminster

mister said:

zur312 said:

-it is much easier

Ack.

-dunno what you ask but manual was wrong in many places and descriptions in game are better now

I think I vaguely recall something about saving throws changing with high wisdom, or possibly int.

elminster said:

6. Weapon proficiencies however have been altered from BG2 to provide (among other things) a 1/2 attack per round bonus for grandmastery.

So like BG1 then. I wonder if in BG2:EE they will go back to a missing half attack.


BG2EE will keep the same proficiency bonuses as BGEE.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/347484#Comment_347484

Also I would note that without modifying the experience cap in BG1 it was never possible to actually get grand mastery in BG1. It is possible to get it in BGEE now particularly if you dual class.

mister

elminster said:

Also I would note that without modifying the experience cap in BG1 it was never possible to actually get grand mastery in BG1.

Strange, I have a clear memory of getting grand mastery in longbow (which was broken as hell, I think the damage bonuses were bugged).

TJ_Hooker

There is a difference between the BG1 and BG:EE proficiency tables. In BG1 you gained +1 APR at grandmastery, for a total of + 3/2 APR from proficency, whereas in BG:EE you only gain +1/2 at GM, for a total of +1 APR. But as was said before, the implementation of GM in BG1 was never really an issue because you coudn't get it without modding.

elminster

mister said:

elminster said:

Also I would note that without modifying the experience cap in BG1 it was never possible to actually get grand mastery in BG1.

Strange, I have a clear memory of getting grand mastery in longbow (which was broken as hell, I think the damage bonuses were bugged).

You could eventually get up to 4* in any weapon (longbow, melee, whatever) as a fighter. The most you could put into any weapon at start up in BG1 though was **, which is why you couldn't get grandmastery.

Flashburn

Dual-classing into a fighter at early levels will let you get grandmastery in a weapon.

TJ_Hooker

Flashburn said:

Dual-classing into a fighter at early levels will let you get grandmastery in a weapon.

In BG:EE, yes. Not in vanilla.

mister

alnair said:

mister said:

if I get it off beamdog do I get access to the latest beta?

You will, as soon as Phase III of The Road to v1.2 begins

And it has. I don't see anything in my beamdog client for it, where do I look?

alnair

@mister
You have to request access by sending a mail to @Dee. You can find specific instructions here or here