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Saturday Spellcaster Strategies #3: triggers and contingencies

24

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  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    With the use of spell sequencers, I have found the correct way to kill Dragons...

    You get 2 mages, have both fill a Spell Sequencer with 3 Chromatic Orbs (should be high enough level to be save or die), first both cast a Lower Resistance to make them be hit by the Orbs and not just bounce off of resistance... When they orbs hit, it will need to successfully roll 6 saving throws or be instantly killed. The RNG is not evil enough to let them do that.

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Kaltzor said:

    With the use of spell sequencers, I have found the correct way to kill Dragons...

    You get 2 mages, have both fill a Spell Sequencer with 3 Chromatic Orbs (should be high enough level to be save or die), first both cast a Lower Resistance to make them be hit by the Orbs and not just bounce off of resistance... When they orbs hit, it will need to successfully roll 6 saving throws or be instantly killed. The RNG is not evil enough to let them do that.

    Why not precast a Greater Malision to improve the odds?

    jackjack
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    bbear said:


    Why not precast a Greater Malision to improve the odds?

    That'll help it too.

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,835
    Greater Malision, Glitterdust, Doom and Spook I think are all of the general things you can cast to lower an opponents saving throws.

    semiticgoddess
  • pekirtpekirt Member Posts: 111
    An analogue of DPS needs to be considered here: One can't take too much time on preparatory spells. For a high level dragon, a couple of rounds of weakening spells would have to suffice.

    (On another yet similar note, self buffing builds are great--once the buffs go off. The character must survive with reasonable health until they go off.)

  • syllogsyllog Member Posts: 158
    edited December 2013
    XerxesV said:

    Update: I've been using chain contingency like crazy in the Black Pits 2. It seems to be the only spell you can cast in the building, that means you can still assign offensive and defensive spells that activate when seeing an enemy.

    It's also great for an initial boost in the first round of battle, and you can use it to speed your spell casting by 300%. Let's say you want to cast 4 spells but a monster is closing in on you. Just click CC and it pauses the game so you can select 3: such as true sight, magic sword and haste. If you select "see enemy" as soon as you hit OK all three spells cast instantly. Then you can cast the fourth spell like normal.

    I've been exploiting this like crazy. Running from enemies and casting dozens of fireballs over my shoulder without stopping. It's amazing.

    More power to you, but I do think of that as just a bug and avoid using it in combat for that reason.

    Chain Contingency should take a round to cast, just like Contingency (it says so in the spell description). As it is it's like a super time stop (you can even target invisible enemies, because nearest enemy isn't hindered by invisibility -- important if you're playing with enhanced AI). [I also wish they'd nerf timestop so you couldn't attack [like 3.5 edition] and then buff Enervate and Meteor Swarm [5 levels drained, and 4 targetable 10d4 missiles with no save to target and a saveable area of effect]). ...But I digress.

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    edited December 2013

    Greater Malision, Glitterdust, Doom and Spook I think are all of the general things you can cast to lower an opponents saving throws.

    Glitterdust and Spook do not.

    jackjacksemiticgoddess
  • MitchforkMitchfork Member Posts: 390
    Is Minor Spell Sequencer even worth the effort to set up? You have to "waste" a level 4 spell to cast two level 1/2 spells, which have to be pulled from your memorized spells. It is advantageous that you cast them instantly, but if you have the Robe of Vecna anything at those spell levels is gonna be an effective cast time of 1 anyway, so you basically use a level 4 slot to save one round in combat. I remember finding a Minor Spell Sequencer scroll in BGEE and getting excited because I'd never used it before, but trying to justify burning a valuable level 4 slot is pretty hard.

    I mean, Blur/Mirror Image is a good combo but those are quick-casting spells anyway.

    The higher-level Spell Sequencer and Spell Trigger are probably quite useful, though.

  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    I think the most you'll get out of a minor sequencer might be 2 melf's acid arrows... Unless they've been changed to not stack.

  • MikeMike Member Posts: 65
    bbear said:

    Why not precast a Greater Malision to improve the odds?

    By precast you mean to cast it before you initiate the fight? I have always wondered if that would work. So, for instance, fighting the Red Dragon, I could pre-cast Greater Mallison and Lower Resistance, then blast away?

  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    Mike said:

    bbear said:

    Why not precast a Greater Malision to improve the odds?

    By precast you mean to cast it before you initiate the fight? I have always wondered if that would work. So, for instance, fighting the Red Dragon, I could pre-cast Greater Mallison and Lower Resistance, then blast away?
    Putting any negative effects on anyone is considered an attack and the target will become hostile, but once you lower the resistances you can throw doom and malision on the dragon to lower it's saving throws, then it will even more likely die when it has to save vs. whatever or die... Specially if using the Sequencers to throw 6 Chromatic Orbs from 2 mages, 6 successful throws a in a row is not easy to make.

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    I still love to pop a minor sequencer of blur and mirror image in case of an ambush.

    booinyoureyesAbel
  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 211
    I like to use Doom + Hold Person in a minor sequencer.

    jackjackDragonspearbooinyoureyessemiticgoddess
  • selkyraselkyra Member Posts: 54
    I like to use Project Image and 2x Mordenkainen's sword in CC when helpless. First, enemy s like "Oh I've got you now!" but then the spell kicks in and he's like "OH ****".

    On Spell Trigger Greater Malison, Lower Resistance and Finger of Death or different combinations of these. Boost with CC and you can in theory kill anything.

  • bigrobbigrob Member Posts: 8

    Greater Malision, Glitterdust, Doom and Spook I think are all of the general things you can cast to lower an opponents saving throws.

    Glitterdust and Spook do not.
    If Glitterdust blinds the opponent, they then have -4 to saves. Or have I got that wrong?

    mjssyllogsemiticgoddess
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    bigrob said:

    Greater Malision, Glitterdust, Doom and Spook I think are all of the general things you can cast to lower an opponents saving throws.

    Glitterdust and Spook do not.
    If Glitterdust blinds the opponent, they then have -4 to saves. Or have I got that wrong?
    Spook doesn't lower saving throw, but (as per spell description) those G-bombed will be blinded with the same penalties that apply to blindness enemies. because the affects of glitterdust only last 4 rounds (compared to blindness's epic 10 turns) I like to try and get blindness to stick while they're still under the effects of glitterdust

    I like my de-buff spell sequencer with greater malison, blindness and slow

    BrudeDragonspearsemiticgoddess
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    jackjack said:

    I still love to pop a minor sequencer of blur and mirror image in case of an ambush.

    If you have Aerie or Cleric/Mage, another good combo is Bless+Chant. Those spells have long casting time and short duration and it's perfect contingency for ambush fights.

    KaigenjackjackNic_MercyReadingRambo
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    @bigrob @mjs
    No, blindness gives -4 penalty to attack rolls and Armor Class.

    jackjackmjssemiticgoddess
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742

    @bigrob @mjs
    No, blindness gives -4 penalty to attack rolls and Armor Class.

    well I'll be...

    -the irony of misreading the blindness spell description!

    booinyoureyesWanderonsemiticgoddess
  • syllogsyllog Member Posts: 158
    edited January 2014

    Greater Malision, Glitterdust, Doom and Spook I think are all of the general things you can cast to lower an opponents saving throws.

    Glitterdust and Spook do not.
    Glitterdust does.
    Glitterdust blinds opponents. (if they fail their save - which is not modified to begin with)
    Blindness carries a -4 save penalty.
    It's not listed in the description, but it is an effect.

    EDIT:
    Went into EEKeeper and Near Infinity --> It's not clear if Blindness still affects saves.
    It used to, but it may have been changed. I can't find what the Blindness effect is coded to do (notably the luck affect changes things without reporting them on your char sheet).

    Can anyone confirm whether or not the effects of blindness have been changed wrt saves?!

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    pekirt said:

    Nic_Mercy said:


    Chain Contingency: Horrid Wilting x3 on "see enemy"
    LOVE just decimating foes the instant they come into view!


    Hm. Say, you see some enemies in the middle of Athkathla, where there are also many poor, poor NPCs going
    about their business... kids playing...

    Instant attention from Dark Powers, if you had been living in Ravenloft. ;)
    What is there really in Athkathla that you need that much damage just walking around? I'd think that the HWx3 contingency would be reserved for when you know you are walking into horrible danger. But not otherwise.

    For me, I am a terrible caster/player (despite playing a wizard almost exclusively). I use contingencies as a back-up stoneskin or miss-direction.

    I use the sequencers to chain direct damage appropriate to the level, but only occasionally. These I use as basically 'extra' spells prepared for when things get bad. Basically, cast and then forget until you need them.

    so maybe I am not the one to be advising spell casting???

  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    edited January 2014
    If it's the Athkatla I know, with liches in random basements and slavers jumping you in the streets I'd have one at all times and make damn sure everyone knew it. Horrid Wilting only hits enemies anyways. If they die to it then they had it coming. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

    edit: but seriously, those guys were burnt, crushed, liquified, frozen, shot, vaporized, turned inside out and petrified when I arrived. I didn't see who did it.

    Durlag_ThunderaxeCthulhus_Mum
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited January 2014
    Um, really? those slavers have you quaking in your boots so much that you need an "On site" triple Horrid Wilting? They've never been that big a deal for me. Maybe I need to pay closer attention. In my game, they usually die quite easily and often times without wasting 9th level spells.

    As for the Liches, sure there are a few around, and sure they are a bit more scary than pirates, but are they really so prevalent that you need to cast such cheese? Don't you usually feel the icy fingers down the back of your neck when they are around? Aren't they usually all locked up in tombs and underground crypts that you are greedily spelunking?

    Plus, do you really want horrid to go off randomly because some guy in a bar doesn't like your smell?

    "Dr. Evazan: [grabbing Luke] *I* don't like you either. You just watch yourself. We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems.
    Luke: I'll be careful.
    Dr. Evazan: You'll be dead! "


    Horrid Wilting, Horrid Wilting, Horrid Wilting.... Everyone in the cantina dies......, including Silias Snead, and Jar Jar who is hiding under the bar.

    jackjack
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Hey if Jar Jar goes, any possible collateral damage is just fine with me.

    nanomoody_mageWolk
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    edited January 2014
    It's not about the damage, it's about sending a message.


    As for the Liches, sure there are a few around, and sure they are a bit more scary than pirates, but are they really so prevalent that you need to cast such cheese? Don't you usually feel the icy fingers down the back of your neck when they are around? Aren't they usually all locked up in tombs and underground crypts that you are greedily spelunking?

    I take it you've never discovered a lich while exploring the basement of a random inn - just to make sure the innkeeper wasn't holding back on the good stuff you understand, we certainly weren't thinking of helping ourselves without paying - and received a long lecture about the folly of disturbing his undead rest? Liches can be so long winded at times, and I swear he cast time stop to make his speech even longer. But anyways, they turn up in the strangest places. Reminds me of that one time when I forgot a sandwich in the bottom of my bag of holding, and it attained sentience and achieved lichdom before I found it. I had to stuff Tiax in there to get rid of it because no one else could fit through the opening. Took weeks to get rid of the smell.


    Plus, do you really want horrid to go off randomly because some guy in a bar doesn't like your smell?

    Um, yes? Not that that would ever happen; what am I, a smelly warrior?


    Horrid Wilting, Horrid Wilting, Horrid Wilting.... Everyone in the cantina dies......, including Silias Snead, and Jar Jar who is hiding under the bar.

    You say that like it's a bad thing! But I don't know if Jar Jar counts as "enemy" in that scenario so we might have to "accidentally" fire some skull traps in his direction.

    booinyoureyes
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    syllog said:

    Greater Malision, Glitterdust, Doom and Spook I think are all of the general things you can cast to lower an opponents saving throws.

    Glitterdust and Spook do not.
    Glitterdust does.
    Glitterdust blinds opponents. (if they fail their save - which is not modified to begin with)
    Blindness carries a -4 save penalty.
    It's not listed in the description, but it is an effect.

    EDIT:
    Went into EEKeeper and Near Infinity --> It's not clear if Blindness still affects saves.
    It used to, but it may have been changed. I can't find what the Blindness effect is coded to do (notably the luck affect changes things without reporting them on your char sheet).

    Can anyone confirm whether or not the effects of blindness have been changed wrt saves?!
    Yes, me. And the answer is "no" ;)

  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    3x Horrid Wilting is an awesome contingency to use in the middle of a fight though, I don't like to pop it on sight because mage defenses...

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @nano - apparently the message you are sending is 'destroy the building. there's a fly in there somewhere'. LOL - 'nuke em from orbit. it's the only way to be sure'.

    yeah, I encountered that lich. Still, he wasn't walking the streets looking for you. You are still disturbing his resting place, regardless of how strange it might be. Maybe he was merely putting up there for the night? It is an Inn after all.

    I suppose the best argument for not using Horrid Wilting x3 on spotting enemy would be if some random cut-purse were to accidentally trigger it. For me, I'd want to save that type of firepower for something worthy of the message.

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    The_spyder I don't understand your point. If you plan to cast a CC and then sleep, you're not wasting any spell since it's a free CC.
    Else, simply cast the CC when you *need* it (during the fight). Which is definitely not a "waste".

    booinyoureyes
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    My point is that 'Enemy on site' as the trigger will cause the effect to trigger when the first enemy appears. Setting the trigger to something a bit more useful such as half life or when hit even might prevent that much damage being 'wasted' on something that doesn't really NEED that much.

    I play a mage primarily. So he stays out of combat unless he absolutely has too. therefore the likelihood of him getting hit is somewhat less than someone like Korgan for instance. If I set chain contingency of HWx3 to go off 'enemy sighted', it might explode when a kobold appears in the sewers under the temple district. if i set it 'when hit' it won't go off until something has messed up the front liners and is a real threat.

    Sure, it is a freeby, but you might as well not ever cast it if it is only going to wipe out a bunch of kobolds that could be easily mopped up by your grunts... ahem.... front liners... ahem.... in a needlessly destructive way.

    think of it this way. If you had a 'Get a get out of jail free' pass, would you use it on avoiding a speeding ticket? or would you hold onto it until that murder charge were laid against you?

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