Total Available Rolled Stat Points Indicator in Char Creation

fortuntek

So, I roll a class-- let's say a Fighter. When allocating stat points, I click the button to roll for stats, then I lower each stat to their minimum. This allows me to see how many available "stat points" I have to play with, in the little box at the top of the screen. Since I am (naturally) trying to maximize this number, I am forced to do this again and again until I obtain a good result. Roll. Subtract all available stats. Is the number higher than the highest result I have saved? No? Rinse and repeat until satisfied.

This is a sort of clunky and unnecessary mechanic. I have always thought: wouldn't this process be much easier if we could simply see how many available points we have to spend in a nifty indicator, as we make each stat roll? It's just an efficiency/ease of use idea that I always wished could be implemented. Say I want Strength 18/95 or higher for example. This makes the process take even longer, and I know I am not the only perfectionist among us who does this. Would this be easy or difficult to implement? Anyone else ever wish we could have something like this?

Baldur

I'd say it wasn't clunky and unnecessary at all. I'd say it's a fair case of rewarding you for your patience with your swag, high-tier stats.

fortuntek

I'm not sure that patience is a good thing, when all you're doing is clicking a button repeatedly. I mean, that does not create a depth of experience in a game, only a grind. Otherwise, I'd agree with you. However, I do admit that it's a relatively minor detail... but one which I have consistently thought would be useful over the years

SpidersBane

I think this grind gives a higher sense of satisfaction when you finally get the desired roll, and it makes you that much more attached and proud of your character.

Making everything easy seems to be the way of the modern gamer, but I like how BG has it's challenges and I think by making things like this easier it takes away from the whole feel.

Why not double the xp we gain from monsters because it takes too long to level up?

Why can't we earn 1000gp in Candlekeep (aside from that sapphire :P), we want armour and weapons!


It's a valid claim, who wants to sit around for hours trying to get a good roll? But in the end, I think it is more rewarding the way it is.

fortuntek

Good points, except for the part about wanting things "easier" ... I guess you could say that I want to skip unnecessary steps (is it "harder" to press a button more times?)

I suspect that you don't use mods that allow arrows to stack to higher numbers either.. and that's fine, but I'm of a differing mind. Perhaps I'm in the minority.

Rasmus

This is one of the areas 4th edition improved. Both as a GM and player (roleplaying d&d 2nd, 3rd and 3.5 d&d games) I have always had a monumental issue with rolling stats since it leads to:
a) players outright getting a less challenging gameplay experience due to a random cause (as opposed to good play etc).
b) Players playing horribly to get killed so they can make a new character with better stats.

In BG this was just as stupid since it rewards players who reroll (metagame) endlessly.

The easy fix would be to give a fixed number of points to spend, and possibly give certain classes a bonus due to weird 2nd edition rules (paladin having crazy requirements...). I think it is fair to say that most people played the BG series with pretty high rolls, so my suggestion would be to keep a "high power" number as the baseline, and improve it if you lower the difficulty, and lower it if you increase the difficulty.

fortuntek

Rasmus said:

This is one of the areas 4th edition improved. Both as a GM and player (roleplaying d&d 2nd, 3rd and 3.5 d&d games) I have always had a monumental issue with rolling stats since it leads to:
a) players outright getting a less challenging gameplay experience due to a random cause (as opposed to good play etc).
b) Players playing horribly to get killed so they can make a new character with better stats.

In BG this was just as stupid since it rewards players who reroll (metagame) endlessly.

The easy fix would be to give a fixed number of points to spend, and possibly give certain classes a bonus due to weird 2nd edition rules (paladin having crazy requirements...). I think it is fair to say that most people played the BG series with pretty high rolls, so my suggestion would be to keep a "high power" number as the baseline, and improve it if you lower the difficulty, and lower it if you increase the difficulty.

Hmm. You're right, it's a problem for the rule set... but I think these types of changes are too big for a remake... I think it would stray from the spirit of the original game, and turn off too many long-time fans. Were a brand new game being developed, I would whole heartedly agree with you.

One other thing: from a developer perspective, they may WANT us to want to metagame endlessly. In a weird way, it actually creates replay value... and that's another issue entirely.

Hmm... I thought more people would agree with this little addition. I suppose it could be made optional... I would certainly be just as happy if this were to be moddable by the community, but it hasn't happened yet and I'm assuming it's because it was hard-coded.

Snobbles

So your suggesting, keep the rolling and just change it so that you can actually see the total available points without taking points off all of your stats?

That seems fair enough. This seems to me to be an ease of use feature rather than an easy game feature.

Tanthalas

@fortuntek

This has actually been requested several times already, so you're not alone in this.

Werehound_Silverfang

Playing Devil's advocate but... If this suggestion is to ease the process of having the highest statistics possible, why not just set the points you get at the beginning?

JariahxSynn

I like the idea of spending stat points myself since its quicker and less likely to give me finger pains. Going click...click...click-click... gets really old especially since you know what you want.

Chromatic5

I'd like the feature added. I never roll more than five to ten times but its still annoying to have add up all the points manually. It's not affecting gameplay, just speeding up a repetitive part of the character generation process.

fortuntek

Snobbles said:

So your suggesting, keep the rolling and just change it so that you can actually see the total available points without taking points off all of your stats?

That seems fair enough. This seems to me to be an ease of use feature rather than an easy game feature.

This. This, exactly.

Werehound_Silverfang said:

Playing Devil's advocate but... If this suggestion is to ease the process of having the highest statistics possible, why not just set the points you get at the beginning?

Well, for one, that WOULD be simply making things easier. The proposed "change" really changes nothing; it simply gives us a less frustrating way of carrying out the same task. I know it's a fine line, but giving the points at the beginning goes a bit too far imo. Because in a way you're right; but changing the character creation process that drastically seems like too much of a change to the original game, whereas adding an indicator is not.

Chromatic5 said:

I'd like the feature added. I never roll more than five to ten times but its still annoying to have add up all the points manually. It's not affecting gameplay, just speeding up a repetitive part of the character generation process.

See, this is why I think people would find it useful... not everyone will spend as much time as me trying to get the "perfect" roll... some will only do so a few times. But I think that no matter who is playing the game, this addition could only be positive thing.

KageDelta

I can only agree with implementing this. I started a thread on it and someone linked me here. Since i doubt it will be implemented at all. Someone has pointed out that the way they do it is just move all stats to 15 and add the sum much quicker. Guess I'll be forced to do it this way upon release of the game.

Grieg

Nooo, there should be something opposite:
only one roll,
take it or leave:]

And for sure it shouldn't be implemented.

Sallparadise

I really don't see a need to add a new bit to the character creation module when it only takes half a minute to do now.
And let's be honest here, for most of us at least, we're still going to take 45 minutes to roll our character either way

Aliteri

Rasmus said:

This is one of the areas 4th edition improved. Both as a GM and player (roleplaying d&d 2nd, 3rd and 3.5 d&d games) I have always had a monumental issue with rolling stats since it leads to:

We've had alternatives to rolling for a long, long time now. Its not a 4th ed thing.

HvitrEbrithil

Do. Not. Want.

bigdogchris

I think they have stretched the rules far enough to even let you adjust point distribution in the first place. You're supposed to roll each stat then choose a class based on that.

That said, I'd actually prefer that they limit the amount of rerolls you can do to prevent stat min/maxing, as min/maxing is exactly the opposite of what D&D is supposed to be, and what modern (aka crappy) roleplaying is all about.

Kenji

I try and round the stats all up/down to 15, to see if I have at least five 15s. With six 15s that just meant you rolled a 90 total, which is decent.