I find this so confusing, BG1 vs BGEE and BG2 vs BG2EE

Johnny301

So I have never played BG before, but I played PST along with all its mods and improvements and enjoyed it because the modding community fixed so many problems the game had, so I was considering buying the BG series, but I am uncertain if I should get the original or the enhanced ones.

The modding community has had a large amount of time to:
1) Provide widescreen support for the original BG1 and BG2 and provide texture packs to improve graphics
2) Fix bugs in the original BG1 and BG2
3) Release balance mods for the original BG1 and BG2 so overpowered things are toned down, and useless things are made more useful.

Now I know the enhanced editions have 1 covered, but are all the bug fixes the community released as fixpacks over the years included in the enhanced editions?
And what about the balance fixes, are those carried over? or at least still compatible (I would expect not for BG1) ?

TJ_Hooker

I'm not aware of any mods that provide texture packs. However, for BG2:EE Overhaul was able to redo the area maps in a higher quality than the original.

Yes, bug fixes from mods were included, as well as some additional fixes. Some new bugs were introduced, but they have been busy quashing them ever since.

For the most part, game balance was not touched, other than tweaking a few things that came from BG2 that would have been too powerful in BG:EE. As far as BG:EE mod compatibility goes, it'll depend on which mod you're talking about. BG2:EE is likely to have better mod compatibility (than BG1:EE) from the get-go.

CutlassJack

Its not really that confusing. If you never played BG before, get the EE version. It looks and plays the absolute best, and easilly compatable with modern systems and resolutions without having to run third party patching programs.

More importantly, it has all the BG2 advanced character creation options (like Kits) added to the original game. And has three entirely new Companions you can recruit all with their own quests and storylines and romances (something none of the originals really have in the first game). In short, it makes the first game play more like the second game.

I'd reccomend picking up EE now while its on sale so cheap. Hard to beat the $5 price. But you might want to wait a smidge to play it until the next patch comes out. Its currently in testing now, so wont be that long. I'm playing the beta of that patch and its the best verison of the game I've played to date. (and I played it back on the original discs when it came out)

If you do end up grabbing the EE while its on sale, I'd suggest grabbing it directly from Beamdog, rather than Steam. You'll get the patch faster when it happens. The Steam version takes longer to update due to Atari's involvement.

Vintrastorm

Also, buying directly from steam will give less money to the developers Beamdog/Overhaul games since Steam takes about 30% and then Atari probably takes the majority, if not all, of what's left.

Sed

@Johnny301
Also a lot of the modders are now working with Beamdog to make the game perfect, and most of the popular mods are either implemented (like fixpacks) or available for BG:EE.

Definitely go for BG:EE!

Corvino

BG:EE is still not 100% compatible with all BG1 mods due to engine changes and different file naming systems, as I understand it. A lot of mods have been made compatible though.

BG2:EE should be far more compatible from day 1 as there has been no change to the file naming, allowing a lot of mods for BG2 to work without any tweaks.

If you've not played any Baldur's Gate before, then go for the EEs. While the modded originals are robust and good compromise, they do lack the polish and stability of a professional product.

FrozenCells

I would go for BG:EE. For people who already have the originals and have been playing it so long, BGT/BG1tutu are viable and good alternatives but it's a lot of effort (to install and mod) for increasingly diminishing returns since progress continues with both the BG:EE project itself and also the conversion and creation of mods for BG:EE. Balance is, I think, an issue regardless of which one you play, the BG2 elements just don't mesh in that well with how BG1 was designed, and it doesn't help that minimal attention has been paid to tweaking kits.

rdarken

If memory serves, they included mods that they could get permission from the authors for and which are high quality.

Quartz

CutlassJack said:

In short, it makes the first game play more like the second game.

Which is exactly why I still prefer Vanilla BG1. BG1 =/= BGII, dammit.

Still, BG:EE did a much better job staying true to the BG1 spirit than BG:TuTu ever did.

chickenhed

Quartz said:

CutlassJack said:

In short, it makes the first game play more like the second game.

Which is exactly why I still prefer Vanilla BG1. BG1 =/= BGII, dammit.

Still, BG:EE did a much better job staying true to the BG1 spirit than BG:TuTu ever did.

Exactly. I have purchased BG:EE. I think it is a WONDERFUL idea and I'm glad it has been created. Still, to this day, I still play Vanilla. BG1, to ME, was never meant be be BG2. It was written WITHOUT kits and BG2 spells in mind. On top of that, hearsay or not, I like the look of BG1 vanilla better than BG2. As you can imagine, I never played tutu either.

All that being said, again I think BG:EE is wonderful in that it opens up the greatness that is BG1 to a wider audience that may not necessarily care about the same stuff I just mentioned.

Lastly, I will definitely be playing BG2:EE as my definitive BG2. All of the enhancements (again to me) make perfect sense for it. We will just have to see if I enjoy the new NPC's enough to do a full playthrough of BG:EE.

Zarakinthish

I can't recommend BG:EE enough. Not only does it take worlds less time to install, it adds two things from BG2 that finally allowed me to finish the game: drastically better area maps, and a much more organized journal. With the original game, I became hopelessly lost whenever I got to the city of Baldur's Gate because there was so little indication as to what building was the one I needed for a quest. Combine that with a journal that didn't differentiate between quests and observations that may or may not have any bearing on matters at hand and you get the perfect storm for me never finishing. To sum things up, paying full price was well worth it for me (even though I still have the original CDs), as it finally enabled me to finish a game I never thought I'd be able to finish.

Quartz

chickenhed said:

Exactly. I have purchased BG:EE. I think it is a WONDERFUL idea and I'm glad it has been created. Still, to this day, I still play Vanilla. BG1, to ME, was never meant be be BG2. It was written WITHOUT kits and BG2 spells in mind. On top of that, hearsay or not, I like the look of BG1 vanilla better than BG2. As you can imagine, I never played tutu either.

All that being said, again I think BG:EE is wonderful in that it opens up the greatness that is BG1 to a wider audience that may not necessarily care about the same stuff I just mentioned.

Lastly, I will definitely be playing BG2:EE as my definitive BG2. All of the enhancements (again to me) make perfect sense for it. We will just have to see if I enjoy the new NPC's enough to do a full playthrough of BG:EE.

I'm so glad there are others who feel the same as me. :P

fighter_mage_thief

deleted post

DeathKnight

Johnny301 said:

So I have never played BG before, but I played PST along with all its mods and improvements and enjoyed it because the modding community fixed so many problems the game had, so I was considering buying the BG series, but I am uncertain if I should get the original or the enhanced ones.

The modding community has had a large amount of time to:
1) Provide widescreen support for the original BG1 and BG2 and provide texture packs to improve graphics
2) Fix bugs in the original BG1 and BG2
3) Release balance mods for the original BG1 and BG2 so overpowered things are toned down, and useless things are made more useful.

Now I know the enhanced editions have 1 covered, but are all the bug fixes the community released as fixpacks over the years included in the enhanced editions?
And what about the balance fixes, are those carried over? or at least still compatible (I would expect not for BG1) ?

I have played both editions, original and EE. I do not like suggesting things. My opinion is personal. And i fear a little, because i am posting in a forum, from and for, the enhanced editions themselves and their creators.

I personally consider the originals superior by far. For many reasons. Especially so, since you like mods, you can enjoy the "restored content", bug fixes, even the trilogy mod, without having to buy those games anew, at roughly DOUBLE the price of the modern tweaked originals, say, like from GOG.

BG1 with 2's system, which is one of the biggest changes EE forces, is very hostile to players, especially new ones. 1 original had weapon proficiencies, covering MANY weapon types, collected in one main category. Plus, its mastery system, was way more powerful and productive (the more stars you spent) compared to 2. Also, there was no summoning limit; you could command an entire faqing army! Spells like hold person, confuse, horror etc, in 1 original, laster longer, were stronger and more effective, and were game makers (for player caster) or game breakers (from enemy casters). In 2 original, and 1+2 EE, they use the mechanics of 2, which severely watered them down, as well as summoned creatures, with 5 creatures maximum limit. The only bright side of 1EE, at least in my books, is the corrected magic resistance (in original high resistance prevented both friendly and hostile spells if it was high), and the rest until fully healed option. In pretty much anything else, 1 is better the way it had always been.

BG2 now. In the original, you could keep your hard earned items from 1. Circumvent the limits at summoned creatures. Powergame to your heart's content by using exploits and holes (like eliminating wild surges from wild mages, or use infinite spellcasting without rest inbetween). And many more interesting stuff. Like Beamdog going against Bioware's decision of the time to prevent ranger kits from dualling with a patch, except for Beastmaster exclusively; in EE, all ranger kits can dual, stuff which should NOT. In the EE, all this stuff is actually gone. Now there is only the cheat option, the console commands, or the watered down, nerfed, butchered, compared to the amazing original, gameplay. 2EE for me has only 2 nice things, as i found for 1EE. The fact that it displays your total stats number rolled, and that it features an advanced multiplayer style, cross-platform, allowing you to find other players very easily.

All in all, for me, besides the 2 points i liked in each EE, the only common good i saw in both EEs, was their updated graphics, and better built journal/quest tracking. For pretty much everything else, for me, the original is still the top dog. And i seriously mean it.

Pantalion

Hm. I see you are barred from casting illusion spells sirrah DeathKnight.

Mitchfork

DeathKnight said:

Plus, its mastery system, was way more powerful and productive (the more stars you spent) compared to 2.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weapon mastery was "restored" to its BG1 levels in both EE games, so it's exactly as powerful as it was in vanilla.

DeathKnight

Mitchfork said:

DeathKnight said:

Plus, its mastery system, was way more powerful and productive (the more stars you spent) compared to 2.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weapon mastery was "restored" to its BG1 levels in both EE games, so it's exactly as powerful as it was in vanilla.

Mitchfork said:

DeathKnight said:

Plus, its mastery system, was way more powerful and productive (the more stars you spent) compared to 2.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weapon mastery was "restored" to its BG1 levels in both EE games, so it's exactly as powerful as it was in vanilla.

You are neither right, nor wrong. Proficiency efficiency/potency, might have been corrected in EE, but still, BG1 original mastery system, was collective and way more rewarding; by spending points in "blunt weapons", say, you had at the same time specialized all of these: "maces, warhammers, clubs, staff". Or polearms, which raised BOTH spear and halberd. Or large sword, which raised an entire PILE of weapons at the same time with the same stars, like longsword, bastard, scimitar, 2H... Do the maths. Which is more player friendly and powerful, again?

mjs

bgee for me is better multiplayer and no loading screens

a friend and I have been waiting YEARS to do the multiplayer playthrough we're currently doing. I remember trying to hook up our computers in a hundred different ways for hours about 10 years ago. now it's simple

Mitchfork

DeathKnight said:

Mitchfork said:

DeathKnight said:

Plus, its mastery system, was way more powerful and productive (the more stars you spent) compared to 2.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weapon mastery was "restored" to its BG1 levels in both EE games, so it's exactly as powerful as it was in vanilla.

You are neither right, nor wrong. Proficiency efficiency/potency, might have been corrected in EE, but still, BG1 original mastery system, was collective and way more rewarding; by spending points in "blunt weapons", say, you had at the same time specialized all of these: "maces, warhammers, clubs, staff". Or polearms, which raised BOTH spear and halberd. Or large sword, which raised an entire PILE of weapons at the same time with the same stars, like longsword, bastard, scimitar, 2H... Do the maths. Which is more player friendly and powerful, again?

Sure, I was just making the distinction that you get the same bonuses for your pips, not the nerfed Grandmastery in vanilla BG2/ToB.

DeathKnight

mjs said:

bgee for me is better multiplayer and no loading screens

a friend and I have been waiting YEARS to do the multiplayer playthrough we're currently doing. I remember trying to hook up our computers in a hundred different ways for hours about 10 years ago. now it's simple

Yes. This, and the updated graphics, are the only good things actually, that the enhanced editions brought us.

Silverstar

Pantalion said:

Hm. I see you are barred from casting illusion spells sirrah DeathKnight.

Larloch's Minor Drain and Vampiric Touch are really nice spells though imo.

ReadingRambo

I love the enhanced editions, but I miss the animations and art of the original baldurs gate and icewind dale. I thought the paper dolls and sprites, shields, helmets etc were ugly compared. Although I still loved bg 2, I was initially quite disappointed the first time I opened the inventory screen years ago.


But that was biowares doing. Beamdog redid the paper dolls to make them more like the original, and for that I was very pleased.