Cool things you couldn't do before

dib

With the new patch many things that used to be hard-coded in the game mechanics have now been externalized into .2da files. I thought it would be nice to have a thread to discuss these matters since it opens up for a lot of cool new options. The screenshot thread is good for showing graphical changes but not so much for showing new possible game mechanic changes.

So far I've made some major changes to race-class restrictions and just now I made some changes to the weapon style bonuses, since I've always thought two-weapon fighting was just a bit OP when compared to other styles. So I decided to nerf two-weapon and and give single-weapon and sword and shield a boost.

Ryofu

can you make it so that you can dual wield 2h weapons?

dib

@Ryofu No, not really.

[Deleted User]

Be interesting to see what ideas people come up with as far as improving Sword and Shield style so that it's actually worth investing in.

There's a comprehensive list on the G3 forums by @camdawg that covers stuff that has been externalized to 2da. Familiars by alignment have been externalized, so if you like playing CG but never liked the Fairy Dragon you can muck about with that selection. There's also a 2da for modding the number of weapon slots a class gets, which could be useful for those Fighter multiclasses that find 2 slots a little cramped, or the Paladins that don't need 3 slots and would rather have a quick spell button (not sure if this works how I'm thinking, as I haven't been able to test it).

A bunch of Thief and Monk related stuff has been externalized, such as skill point and backstab progression for the former and unarmed attacks/damage progression for the latter. A mod that gave Monks their "counts as +1" fist at level 8 instead of level 9 would be handy for late game BGEE, allowing them to forgo magical weapons.

Flashburn

I hope we can manipulate the quickbar like we can in IWD2 someday.

ghostowl

I think, even with those sword-and-shield buffs, dual wield will still be superior, especially in BG2.

Unless you make it so that investing points in shields will give you extra APR or much superior defense (physical resistance, Stat boost, Better Saves), dual wield will come out the winner

My idea:

Sword and Shield

1 slot = The wielder gains -4 AC to missiles, 10% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 1 APR

2 slot = The wielder gains -6 AC to missiles, 20% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 1.5 APR

3 slot (maybe make Paladins allowed to put 3 points since holy shield is symbolic) = The wielder gains immunity to missiles, 30% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 2 APR

APR would make sense because, the better you are accustomed to a shield, the better you can swing your weapon as you hold a shield. If you are a complete beginner with a shield, you are busy trying to balance the weight between the two and you are bad at attacking as you block blows.

dib

On the other hand, if you gained an APR from sword and shield, dual wielding would be completely useless since that's basically what dual wielding does as well.

Anyway, the only bonuses you can add to the 2da file is thac0 bonuses to left or right weapon, ac bonus, missile ac bonus, improved critical hit and weapon speed. So adding bonus attacks etc. is not currently possible.

MonoCanalla

I agree that Single Weapon and Sword and Shield deserved to be boosted, but no need to lower the perks of Two Weapons. Even in D&D 3rd Edition you can get a +2 to AC...

Awong124

dib said:

SINGLE-WEAPON: This fighting style is for characters who do not wish to use a shield but want some bonus when using a one-handed melee weapon.

Proficient (1 slot): The wielder gets a -1 bonus to AC and inflicts critical damage on an attack roll of 19 or 20.

Specialized (2 slots): The wielder gets a -2 bonus to AC, -1 to THAC0 and inflicts critical damage on an attack roll of 18 or 20.

So rolling a 19 won't inflict critical damage?

Schneidend

ghostowl said:

I think, even with those sword-and-shield buffs, dual wield will still be superior, especially in BG2.

Unless you make it so that investing points in shields will give you extra APR or much superior defense (physical resistance, Stat boost, Better Saves), dual wield will come out the winner

My idea:

Sword and Shield

1 slot = The wielder gains -4 AC to missiles, 10% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 1 APR

2 slot = The wielder gains -6 AC to missiles, 20% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 1.5 APR

3 slot (maybe make Paladins allowed to put 3 points since holy shield is symbolic) = The wielder gains immunity to missiles, 30% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 2 APR

APR would make sense because, the better you are accustomed to a shield, the better you can swing your weapon as you hold a shield. If you are a complete beginner with a shield, you are busy trying to balance the weight between the two and you are bad at attacking as you block blows.

An extra attack per round with your best one-handed weapon PLUS the benefits of a shield? Nay, that'd be ridiculous.

Kilivitz

-8 AC against missile attacks on top of the bonus provided by the shield seems a little overkill, no? Put a sling in that character's hands and suddenly all those Black Talon Elites become laughably easy.

dib

Guys, these are just changes I made to my personal game. You're more than welcome to make whatever changes you think seem fair to your own game.

@Awong124 Of course it will.
@Kilivitz That's more to do with piss poor AI.

Awong124

So it's actually inflicting critical damage on a roll of 18 to 20, not 18 or 20.

dib

Opening post edited since some people seemed confused about what the topic was about.

April

Question: Does the game recognize and tell the new bonuses in the bonuses from weapon style part of the character record or is that a separate part that needs to be edited?

Kilivitz

(removed to avoid further derailing)

Dee

@Kilivitz
I think he posted it to talk more generally about the externalizations made and the possibilities they open up.

Kilivitz

@Dee Yeah, that makes sense, sorry. Edited my previous post. I guess I'm the one who got annoyed by the sort of condescending tone.

Dino

ghostowl said:

I think, even with those sword-and-shield buffs, dual wield will still be superior, especially in BG2.

Unless you make it so that investing points in shields will give you extra APR or much superior defense (physical resistance, Stat boost, Better Saves), dual wield will come out the winner

My idea:

Sword and Shield

1 slot = The wielder gains -4 AC to missiles, 10% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 1 APR

2 slot = The wielder gains -6 AC to missiles, 20% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 1.5 APR

3 slot (maybe make Paladins allowed to put 3 points since holy shield is symbolic) = The wielder gains immunity to missiles, 30% chance to completely negate a physical attack, and 2 APR

APR would make sense because, the better you are accustomed to a shield, the better you can swing your weapon as you hold a shield. If you are a complete beginner with a shield, you are busy trying to balance the weight between the two and you are bad at attacking as you block blows.

Sounds cheesy with extra attacks. Would make more sense with a -apr penality when wielding shield, and then the penality deacrease until lvl 3 where it breaks even.
To blance this up, shield should also by default grant a stronger ac bonus.

[Deleted User]

Another externalization, then, to try to get things back on topic: Trap setting limits have been externalized. While I believe it was possible before to remove the trap cap entirely, this allows you to tweak it, and to set different caps for different kits. So if you think the trap cap didn't go far enough, you can reduce it across the board while still keeping traps in the game, or you can balance individual kits by controlling their ability to spam traps.

dib

@April Any bonuses added or removed to weapon styles is correctly reflected automatically in your character record, which is pretty neat.

@Kaigen Yeah, I always thought traps were a bit too powerful so I rarely use them. Nice to see that it's been made much easier to change this, and per class/kit as well.

Has anyone tried changing summoning limits though? I can't seem to get it to work. I set NORMAL in summlimt.2da to 10 but in game it still limits me to 5 summons. Perhaps it's not yet functional?

[Deleted User]

I got added to the beta today, which means I had an opportunity to play around with some of the new externalizations. "numwslot.2da" affects the number of weapon slots a class gets. This only affects the inventory screen, and not the UI. So you can up a Paladin's weapon slots from 3 to 4 and they'll be able to carry four weapons outside of the backpack, but only the first 3 will show up on the UI. Likewise, if you reduce the number of weapon slots, you will be able to carry fewer weapons equipped, but your UI will still show the default number of weapon slots; it won't remove or replace them. Interestingly enough, you can reduce the number of weapon slots to 0, meaning you could make a kit that is unable to equip weapons in the main hand; they'll automatically use their fist, and the off-hand slot is still open for a weapon (which will be dual-wielded with the fist) or a shield. 4 is the practical maximum number of weapon slots; the game won't crash if you set it higher, but there's only room to display 4 weapon slots in the inventory screen.