Multiclassing and dualclassing

Rasmus

One of my peeves with the series was the racial discrimination concerning multiclassing and dualclassing. In effect, multiclassing was generally a bad idea (not always) and dual-classing was always a great idea. My suggestion is either to allow everyone to do both, or disallow dual-classing altogether, since it was simply an improvement over the basis that the game was balanced toward. It makes no sense that your race determines the meta-game mechanics of choosing two professions.

As it is I would say that from a power gaming approach, humans was the only way to go, which is sad.

Tanthalas

@Rasmus

The dual-classing and multi-classing restrictions are straight from AD&D. I doubt they'll be changed for BGEE.

FrozenDervish

Multi classing while for the initial 2 levels is inferior due to having half the hp of a single class will turn out superior mid game and will rival a fully leveled dual class at late game due to never losing class benefits and constantly having access to both classes abilities.

The only good duals would be the ??/specialist mage and possibly fighter/?? due to their grandmastery bonus. Not to mention any non mage duals will have to suck up xp and levels to gain back their initial class and even then will really only do so if you are playing with a less than full party in which case the exp would still be put to just as much use in a multi class mage scribing his scrolls.

All of this not including any non-human racial bonuses like bonus stats, saves, and immunities.

Dazzu

I know that dual classing allows a human of any class to change to any class he has the stat and alignment requirements to do so for.


Example: In Gold Box games not only can you dual class From a Paladin to any other class, you can dual class TO a Paladin from any other class.

Paladin/Ranger? You got it! Ranger/Fighter? Uh, if you say so. Thief/Ranger? You'll be stealthy at least.


Now that the GUI would be fully editable, I don't see restricting these dual classes as prudent any more.

shout27

The real difference in power from Dual-Classing vs Multi-Classing is how the game restricts your maximum level. If there's a literal level cap, then multi-classing will almost always be better because you get both classes to choose from regarding available equipment (magical or otherwise), and in the case of Fighter/?? multiple attacks, the ability to gain from 17+ Con, and 18/??+ strength capability.

Dual-Classing between the game-series XP cap has a more limited if pronounced edge as you can gain several levels in a given class in exchange for a single or specific number of levels from your chosen primary class to take advantage of said limit. Unfortunately, everytime expansions/games were added, this changed.

Xavioria

well this can be a bit dependant on who you ask, because many people solo'ed the first game as a fighter/mage/theif which is of course a multi-class character. Of course that's grounds for arguement because at the same time the experience wasn't shared with other party members. Personally, the only overpowered Dual classed characters i've seen were kensai/mage or kensai/theif. The only thing I have to say to that is to allow multiclassers to be able to level up a kit as one of the multiclassing thingies.

Jean_Luc

I'd like to see something done about Gnomes being the only ones able to multi-class as a specialist mage, not to mentioned the added saving-throw bonus.

Dazzu

Gnomes don't even have the option of being a non-specialist mage. Let the little buggers have SOMETHING over the pointy ears.

Leaf_Eater

I love dual classing and multiclassing, and I hope they expand on it.
But dont take away my ability to powergame the series with one OP character. (gotta keep ToB plausible somehow ;D)

MilesBeyond

There was a BG Tweak Pack released that made two changes:

First, it allowed Fighter/whatevers to achieve Grand Mastery in their weapon specs. This makes so much sense it's not even funny. How come a human can become a level 9 Fighter, dual class over to a Cleric, and have Grand Mastery in Hammers, while a level 30 Fighter/Cleric will never be anything more than Specialized? Doesn't make any sense. This was a great change that made the game so much better.

The second change was removing weapon restrictions from MC'd clerics and druids. This wasn't huge, but it gave the MC a small edge over the DC. Especially Cleric/Rangers with bows. Mmmmm.

Like @shout27 said, if it were a level cap, MC would be great. But since its an XP cap, DC clearly gets the nod. Take out the XP cap and F/M/C is the best class there is, but with it in it will usually succumb to a DC'd F->M or even F->C

Grammarsalad

The announcement says tobex is in. I'm almost positive that allows everyone to dual class. Not sure either way what, if anything, it does with multi

trinit

i love dual classing and would love to see the racial restrictions removed.

but with kits i would give multiclass a chance.

IchigoRXC

I remember seeing a mod that let you attach 3 kits to a multiclass. Something like a Kensai/Assassin/Specilist mage. Was a bit crazy.

Wolfheart

@IchigoRXC Really? How strange that shadowkeeper never let ya do that ^^* If ya find it, please send a link :P I'd love to have a WildMage/Assassin

Tanthalas

@Grammarsalad

I don't think that its certain that everything from ToBex will be added. I also honestly don't remember if ToBex removes dual class restrictions.

Daedalus87m

Dazzu said:

Gnomes don't even have the option of being a non-specialist mage. Let the little buggers have SOMETHING over the pointy ears.

I always thought that the Gnomes also have pointy ears.. or was that Halflings?

IchigoRXC

@Daedalus87M According to the FR wiki, Gnomes are like small elves and Halflings are like small humans, appearance wise.
So yes, the gnomes have pointy ears too

Dazzu

I thought Gnomes were related to Dwarves.

wariisop

Dual classing needs to be fixed so it is not weaker than Multiclassing. I actually like the restrictions, it makes the world more realistic. I wish they would put in that only Elves can cast the High magic.

Grammarsalad

@tanthalas I can't link it now from my phone but I'm about 90% sure it's listed on the readme

jalden

wariisop said:

Dual classing needs to be fixed so it is not weaker than Multiclassing.

I think it's the opposite and they need to buff multiclassing so that it's more competitive with dual classing. Allowing multi-classed fighters to gain grand mastery would be a good start.

There aren't very many instances where multiclassing is stronger than dual classing. Sure you can get HLA abilities in two classes... but that is really kind of over rated and would only come into play if you take the game all the way to the end of BG2 TOB. And for the price of those HLA you get much slower level progression than a dual classed character. Dual classing on the other hand can let you pick up a bunch of levels from Class A while only losing a few levels Class B. Or alternatively you pick up a few levels from Class A while only losing one or even no levels from CLass B. Dual classing pretty much lets you keep your cake and eat it too.

Wolfheart

@Wariisop That would make Edwin very pissed at you :P Sides, if the only mages who can cast lvl 8+ spells were elves then elves would rule the world. Instead its humans who are everywhere and does everything being able to do anything (more or less ^^*)