Dual-Class/Multiclass Hit Die System

Adul

I tried to post this question in the Ask Us Anything thread, but got no answer yet, so I thought I would try my luck here, and at the same time go into a little bit more detail.

While playing the beta with dual-class and multiclass characters, I have detected some anomalies in the HD (hit die) system. They are as follows:

The original two-classed multiclass HP formula on levelup has been:
((the HD of the leveling up class + respective CON bonus) / 2)

The new two-classed multiclass formula seems to be:
((the HD of the leveling up class + respective CON bonus + the HD of the other class + respective CON bonus) / 4)

The problem with the latter approach seems to be that whenever I level up with my character with both my classes on normal difficulty (to get max HP) I get one addition HP compared to what I get when I level up with each class separately. So when I level up as a fighter I get 5 HP, when I level up as a mage I get another 5 HP, but if I decide to wait it out and level up with both at the same time I get 11 HP. I don't think that's a good approach.

That's enough about multiclass, let me now move on to dual-class characters. This will be more difficult for me to describe, because even after testing it out for a while I can't seem to wrap my mind around the behavior I'm seeing - it makes no sense to me. Let me use an example:

I started a human thief with 18 CON. I leveled her up in normal mode (max HP on levelup) to level 6, gaining 8 HP per level (6 from HD + 2 from CON) up to a total of 48.

This is where it gets... strange. I dual-classed her into fighter, and suddenly, her max HP was lowered from 48 to 20. I have no idea why this happened, in the original game (and in AD&D 2nd Ed) dual-class class characters preserve their original HP total until they regain their inactive class levels.

Now, as she gained her levels as a fighter, up to level 6 she gained no HP on levelup. This is normal. But after regaining her thief levels, strangeness hit again. When leveling up to level 7, instead of gaining 14 HP (10 from fighter HD + 4 from CON), she gained 12 HP. According to her record screen, this is accurate: it states that she gains 8 HP from her class level, and 4 from CON. But why the unexpected drop there? Fighters are supposed to get d10, not d8. I don't get it.

So, that's my experience in a nutshell. I guess my reason for writing this is to bring these anomalies to you guys' attention in the development team, and I hope they get corrected. I'm not sure if the multiclass HD system is intentional or not (but even if it is, it should be revised in my opinion), but the dual-class HD system definitely seems glitched.

dib

Adul said:

I started a human thief with 18 CON. I leveled her up in normal mode (max HP on levelup) to level 6, gaining 8 HP per level (6 from HD + 2 from CON) up to a total of 48.

This is where it gets... strange. I dual-classed her into fighter, and suddenly, her max HP was lowered from 48 to 20. I have no idea why this happened, in the original game (and in AD&D 2nd Ed) dual-class class characters preserve their original HP total until they regain their inactive class levels.

Now, as she gained her levels as a fighter, up to level 6 she gained no HP on levelup. This is normal. But after regaining her thief levels, strangeness hit again. When leveling up to level 7, instead of gaining 14 HP (10 from fighter HD + 4 from CON), she gained 12 HP. According to her record screen, this is accurate: it states that she gains 8 HP from her class level, and 4 from CON. But why the unexpected drop there? Fighters are supposed to get d10, not d8. I don't get it.

Most likely a bug that has to do with the fact that multiclasses, like fighter-thief, now have their own hp tables. Even dual classed character are technically multiclass with a dual class flag. And therefore when you dual class from thief to fighter you start using the fighter-thief hp table instead of the fighter hp table as you should.

Bercon

I can confirm that, the system is currently broken. For example multiclass:

1) Create Fighter/Mage, starts with 7 hit points
2) Set exp to 4000 exp to gain Fighter level, +3 hp - > 10 hit points
3) Set exp to 5000 exp to gain Mage level, +3 hp - > 13 hit points
4) Create Fighter/Mage, starts with 7 hit points
5) Set exp to 5000 exp to gain Figther and Mage level at the same time, +7 hp - > 14 hit points
6) Both characters should have same, 14 hit points

dib

This is a serious issue that deserves a lot more attention, IMO.
@Dee Could this be added to the bug tracker unless it's already there?

Bercon

Dual classes uses incorrect HP tables on level up:

1) Create Human Thief, starts with 6 hit points
2) Set exp to 20000 exp to gain level 6 Thief, 6*5 = +30hp - > 36 hit points
3) Dual class to Fighter, no change -> 36 hit points
4) Set exp to 64000 exp to gain level 7 Fighter / 6 Thief, +8 hp - > 44 hit points
5) Fighters gain +10 hp per leve, should be 46 hit points

These two examples are with 14 constitution i.e. no bonus.

Bercon

I couldn't replicate the hit point drop when dual classing with the few tests I did. Constitution bonus for dual class and multiclass was also correctly calculated in every test I did.

Adul

*casts Protection from Good*

@Dee I summon you!

Balquo

@Dee Reported: #6301

Dee

The bug report's a little long; it may take me a bit to get it into the List of Known Issues, but it's something we're working on.

ljbo

@Dee In the "Update List" thread, you listed 10-9-2013 as fixing the multiclass HP computation but you did not give the version number. The launcher has just installed a new update v1.0.2028 on my Mac, that I tried in due course and the bug detailed here is still an issue, i.e. I get 13 HP levelling first to fighter and then to mage for Canderous.

ljbo

@Dee The dual classed fighter/thief in the same bug report ends up with the wrong 44 HP as well. Thus on my system, that bug #6297 is not fixed.

Bercon

I tried the multiclass and on PC 2028 it was fixed. Perhaps mac didn't get the same version?

Dee

The Mac build hasn't been updated yet. I'll make sure that gets done this morning.

ljbo

@Dee ah, ok. Since another of the issue you listed as fixed, the strength modifier on sling, was actually fixed, I thought I had the right update.

LeoNegus

@ljbo
Sometimes the Mac build gets partially updated, this happened with the previous update as well.

@Dee
Is it possible to have a notification when Mac version gets fully updated? Maybe a post in the 'Update List' thread? This would help Mac users follow the conversation, especially when we get so frequent updates.

Dee

It was a problem with our updater, actually; it should be fixed now.

Ijimekko

I noticed HP problem, when imported my character from character file. My kensai is 3 lvl, 18 con -> 3*(10 + 4) = 42 HP. Then he became a mage. HP is not changed. But when i exported and imported my character, the amount of hp was 16. When i imported from saved game, amount of hp was correct. Patch 1.2.

Watevers

Berserker/Mage with 117 hp is cut to 63 hp upon importing to any game, single or multi. Patch 1.2 bug.

YozZzZz

Also, when dual-classing in the "Kit description" it shows only the first class as if you haven't dual-classed at all (independently if you've regained you're first class's abilities or not). It seems to be this way in BG2 EE also.
(A little clarification - i'm talking only about the Charname, NPCs seem to have the description right.)
The Example in my case is - Bounty Hunter dual classing to Mage at level 6.

Adul

In that case I'd rather have the game show the description of my kit (bounty hunter) rather than the generic text for mage/thief.