Multi Kit possibilities. its not just possible, it already exist! yes you read right.

zurathan

since i start reading about power gamers kensai/mage or other similar OP characters, i couldn't help wondering if is it possible to combine even more powerful combinations?

let me warn you that this will be a wall of writing for impatient readers. and requires NI.

previous impression was there is only one kit variable and this makes things limit.

so i began experimenting with little game editing and some cheating when necessary with the possibilities of kensai/shapeshifter or priestoftalos/wildmage. i tried EEkeeper and NearInfinity, and definitely liked NearInfinity much more.

at first i found out there is a whole integer to keep this data, it might not occur as an exaggeration but, its 4 byte and can keep more than 4 billion number and its too much. lets found out why its necessary?

when you try editing a .chr file with NearInfinity, you have two option
one: pick the data from a list
two: enter the data with keyboard with hexadecimal or binary.
so you may chose from given list or if you know its code, you can write it.

so found out there is two separate system for keeping data to kit variable.

system 1: uses only 2 bytes, right side one is determine that its system 1 (i guess) and middle right one is just 0-37 as numbers representing the kits

No-Kit 00000000-00000000-00000000-01000000
berserker 00000000-00000000-00000001-01000000
wizardslayer 00000000-00000000-00000010-01000000
kensai 00000000-00000000-00000011-01000000
cavalier 00000000-00000000-00000100-01000000
inquisitor 00000000-00000000-00000101-01000000
undead hunter 00000000-00000000-00000110-01000000
archer 00000000-00000000-00000111-01000000
stalker 00000000-00000000-00001000-01000000
beastmaster 00000000-00000000-00001001-01000000
assassin 00000000-00000000-00001010-01000000
bountyhunter 00000000-00000000-00001011-01000000
swashbuckler 00000000-00000000-00001100-01000000
blade 00000000-00000000-00001101-01000000
jester 00000000-00000000-00001110-01000000
skald 00000000-00000000-00001111-01000000
totemicdruid 00000000-00000000-00010000-01000000
shapeshifter 00000000-00000000-00010001-01000000
avenger 00000000-00000000-00010010-01000000
talos 00000000-00000000-00010011-01000000
helm 00000000-00000000-00010100-01000000
lathender 00000000-00000000-00010101-01000000
abjurer 00000000-00000000-00010110-01000000
conjurer 00000000-00000000-00010111-01000000
diviner 00000000-00000000-00011000-01000000
enchanter 00000000-00000000-00011001-01000000
illusionist 00000000-00000000-00011010-01000000
invoker 00000000-00000000-00011011-01000000
necromancer 00000000-00000000-00011100-01000000
transmuter 00000000-00000000-00011101-01000000
wildmage 00000000-00000000-00011110-01000000
barbarian 00000000-00000000-00011111-01000000
blackguard 00000000-00000000-00100000-01000000
shadowdancer 00000000-00000000-00100001-01000000
dwarvendefender 00000000-00000000-00100010-01000000
dragondisciple 00000000-00000000-00100011-01000000
darkmoon 00000000-00000000-00100100-01000000
sunsoul 00000000-00000000-00100101-01000000

system 2: works like flag system xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx-xXxxxxxx each bit represents a kit except the uppercase X because it represents system 1 is used. so in this system 31 kits may be combined with each other, the lucky 31 list is this.

diviner 00000000-00000000-00000000-00000001
enchanter 00000000-00000000-00000000-00000010
illusionist 00000000-00000000-00000000-00000100
invoker 00000000-00000000-00000000-00001000
necromancer 00000000-00000000-00000000-00010000
transmuter 00000000-00000000-00000000-00100000
archer 00000000-00000000-00000000-10000000
berserker 00000000-00000000-00000001-00000000
wizardslayer 00000000-00000000-00000010-00000000
kensai 00000000-00000000-00000100-00000000
cavalier 00000000-00000000-00001000-00000000
inquisitor 00000000-00000000-00010000-00000000
blackguard 00000000-00000000-00100000-00000000
abjurer 00000000-00000000-01000000-00000000
conjurer 00000000-00000000-10000000-00000000
talos 00000000-00000001-00000000-00000000
helm 00000000-00000010-00000000-00000000
lathender 00000000-00000100-00000000-00000000
totemicdruid 00000000-00001000-00000000-00000000
shapeshifter 00000000-00010000-00000000-00000000
avenger 00000000-00100000-00000000-00000000
barbarian 00000000-01000000-00000000-00000000
wildmage 00000000-10000000-00000000-00000000
stalker 00000001-00000000-00000000-00000000
beastmaster 00000010-00000000-00000000-00000000
assassin 00000100-00000000-00000000-00000000
bountyhunter 00001000-00000000-00000000-00000000
swashbuckler 00010000-00000000-00000000-00000000
blade 00100000-00000000-00000000-00000000
jester 01000000-00000000-00000000-00000000
skald 10000000-00000000-00000000-00000000

whit in dual/multi class options we are just missing two new prestige class. the dwarvendefender and shadowdancer.
this two cannot be combined with other kits. if the 7th bit from right is "1", it means either you entered one of "system 1 list" or a broken code that will be ignored by the game.

So what does the gibberish above means?
it means you can combine 3 kits with unmodded game already.
i tried berserker/conjurer, wildmage/assassin, berserker/swashbuckler/illusionist and many more this is currently working.
there is something to be noticed, it works way easier with dual class options.
for example you want a swashbuckler->conjurer then you create a regular human swashbuckler that has stats for dual, then you export it to a chr file. then open it with NearInfinity and edit the kit value by right click on it and chose binary option. edit the number with 00010000-00000000-10000000-00000000 and save the file. import this file with new game. you are a swashbuckler thief, nothing lost and when you decide to dual-class you will notice you are a conjurer now. and when you take back your previous abilities then you are a swashbuckler/conjurer with all the perks and penalties. smooth and easy. If you accidentally edit more than one mage kit to “1” that just means broken code and you will be just swashbuckler/mage as result.
multiclass is a little bit difficult.
editing the level to 0 and then lvl up to 1 is not working to get starting perks.
you have to add them separately by using NI.
for example you started a fighter/druid and edited to kensai/avenger (00000000-00100000-00000100-00000000), you have to add AC bonus, kai, attack speed, chromatic orb equivalent spell (spdr101), and shape shifts (spcl632,spcl633,spcl634). you wont have to add higher level bonuses just starting level ones.
these starting perks only added by character creation it seems. any specialist mage by this method wont get +1spl/lvl unless its added manually.

any more questions and comments are welcome, english is not my first language but i try my best for replying them.

TJ_Hooker

Hmm, I just tried to make a Kensai(7)->Swashbuckler. I got the intial +2 bonus to AC from the Kenai kit, but I don't appear to have received the +2 to hit and damage that I should have by Kensai level 6. After dualling, I raised myself to Swashbuckler 17, and I didn't get any bonuses to hit, damage, or AC. Looks like there may be some limitations to this method.

zurathan

can you give more details?
i tested this on BGEE v2014 so i m unable to verify it in other versions.
also i must ask did these +hit and +dmg are tested in profficent weapons?
sometimes this is the problem, i donnow why maybe bug.

TJ_Hooker

My character had 18/00 strength, 18 dexterity, 5 pips in quarterstaves, and was was kensai level 7, dualled to swashbuckler level 17. The only thing he had equipped was a quarterstaff. He should have had an AC of 1 (- 2 from kensai, -4 from DEX, -3 from Swash), but only had AC 4. I then attacked someone and looked at the to-hit roll. He should have had +11 to hit (+3 from grandmastery, +3 from strength, +2 from kensai, +3 from Swash), but he only had + 6.

I am also on v2014.

zurathan

ok i think i just find out why. the general rule for dual/multi class thing is if 2 class has same type of bonus the char only gets higher one.
like profficent * with one class and profficent ** in another results only **
ac bonus is same i guess +1 for swashy and +2 for kensai and your char gets +2
same for +hit and dmg. try use more versatile combinations like kensai+shapeshifter. both fights nude, no downside for that and all the plus gets add.

TJ_Hooker

The thing is I didn't get any hit/damage bonus from either of my kits.

And if what you about only the higher bonuses applying is true, then I should have seen the -3 AC from swashbuckler, rather than the -2 AC from kensai.

zurathan

i dint remove the xp cap and i could only test this till kensai(7)swashbuckler(8); so i must ask further details.
did you installed lvl40 mod or just removed xp cap?
when trying another fighter kit to swashbuckler adds proper ac and other bonuses.
this particular case might be a bug (only occurs while cheating, its unlikely to be fixed). actually well catch man i havent tought this combination would fail like this. there is 500+ new combination posibilities with this method and you found a problematic one with try one. what are the odds?
ehem. i should get back to topic. are you using any mod at all?

Lord_Tansheron

I think that both the Swashbuckler and the Kensai bonuses are added via affect flags. If you manually set those flags (or copy them from a template single class of the appropriate level) you should get both; unless, of course, they are the same flags respectively, which would explain why you only get one bonus. I haven't looked at them specifically, but it may be something you would want to investigate.

[Deleted User]

Hmm, maybe I'm missing a step or something, but I can't get this to work properly. Tried dual=classing a Kensai/Totemic Druid, got a Kensai/Druid instead; no animal summoning. Tried a Kensai/Diviner, no luck, I got a Kensai/Mage. Tried to replicate your Swashbuckler/Conjurer: I got a character who is listed as being both a Swashbuckler and Conjurer in the character sheet once I dualled, but when I took the Swashbuckler up to level 6 I didn't get any additional AC or hit/dam bonus, and I didn't get the bonus spells for being a specialist mage. Also, the "kit description" screen has the description for an unkitted thief.

zurathan

@kaigen i should ask for details. are you using any mods? which version of BG?
without the details i could speculate that this seems you are entering broken code to kit area.
you must realise you cannot combine system1 with system2, only system2 is combinable with itself with restrictions. if you chose more than one mage kit, you end up again broken code results regular mage.
and in some cases NI is unable to change ungenuine BG. i was unable to use NI until i paid 5$ to steam. and finally can you write the "0"1", code here? just to be sure.

[Deleted User]

I'm using BGEE standalone via Beamdog, v2014. No mods (aside from a Neera dialogue expansion which should have no impact). I followed your instructions, locating the Kit line for the character in NI, right clicking and selecting "Edit as binary" and using the system2 codes. For the Swashbuckler->Conjurer I copy-pasted the exact code you list in the OP (removing the hyphens since they weren't present in NI for the existing Kit code). For the Kensai->Diviner I used 00000000 00000000 00000100 00000001.

OlleDenStore

I tried this as well. First with a kensai/swashbuckler 00010000-00000000-00000100-00000000, and then with a kensai/assassin 00000100-00000000-00000100-00000000. The character sheet correctly listed them both as kensai/swashbuckler and kensai/assassin but neither get's any of the benefits of the kits. No extra toHit, dam, kai nor poison weapon.

zurathan

ok. sadly i confirm that kensai->diviner didn't get the +1spell/lvl

it wasnt your BG version problem for sure.
are we helpless here? no
we can add that spell bonus while editing kit.
this is not needed for all class combinations. just try first, if you didnt get bonus spell then continue as below.

push add buton (bottom left), pick effect. this added a new line below then double click on it.
3rd line shows what it is. ac bonus is default. change it to BonusWisardSpell(42)
target= self(1)
change 6th line # spells to add = 1
get to 7th line spell levels, click lvl 1, lvl2 .... lvl 9, this just adds 1 lvl, (no click here means double spells like that ring.)
timing mode= instant/permanent until death(1)
change probability1 to 100
and this should fix the problem for even the multiclass characters.

the kensai thaco dmg thing might be something simple. just reequip the weapon. this should refresh it.
i m seeing the proper bonuses from NI but sometimes they dont aply, donnow why?

[Deleted User]

Just tried to make a Berserker->Priest of Lathander (code: 00000000 00000100 00000001 00000000). Similar results as the Swashbuckler->Conjurer. While the character sheet did replace "Fighter" and "Cleric" with "Berserker" and "Priest of Lathander," the kit description window gave info on the base classes. I took the Berserker up to level 6 before dual-classing, but did not get any additional use of Rage. When I dual-classed and leveled up the PoL side I did not get any uses of Hold Undead or Boon of Lathander.

All this seems to do is have a cosmetic effect on your character sheet while confusing the game into thinking you don't have a kit. Do you have any cases where you actually get the benefits of the second kit on dual-classing? While continuing to get the benefits of your first kit while leveling in the first class?

Edit: Same results with Swashbuckler->Priest of Helm. Titles on the character sheet, but no actual kit perks.

zurathan

ok i see you kaigen. and apriciate your contribution.
i must clear some issues.
i goal here is only improving the game experience. not cheat the way out.
setting expectations is a must here.
i thought i was clear that you only lose starting benefits with this method, if you dont know how to use NI to fix it. i never ment that this is a new way of cheating.
there is if i count right 144 dual class and 360 multi class with kits posibilities which i cannot try them all whitout investing a year.
i can only say that my experience is i get any non starting perks with this method.
i cannot know for sure that what ability game give at start and what ability after you reach certain levels.

it seems you are excelent to found out them.
for example you become kensai, you have to add starying kai to make it even.
i didnt know what game gives you at char creation what later.
and its clearly not just cosmetic. each item in game has flags to makes them unusable by certain kits and classes. so make a kensai wear an armor then say it is just cosmetic.

i apreciate your effort, you understand and used this method perfectly. just try not to stuck in downsides.
i wanna help making your dream character. my goal is improving your gameplay, i mean i wanna make you play the game from level 1 to finish! with game rules, not your rules.

lets found out which class/kit combos sould add what to their character file to get all perks as intendet.
i will personaly make a lvl1 char(when i decide what) and play with it without anymore cheat, when i m sure i wont lose anything. cheating is only for experimenting reasons.
we just need to understand what we get when we reach lvl1 and what when caracter creation. we need and may compensate only the caracter creation perks.

[Deleted User]

The thing is, you don't just have to add the special abilities to make it even; you have to add everything, including the stuff you're supposed to be getting from your first kit. Do this with a Swashbuckler->X combination and you'll find that not only do you not get the AC or hit/damage bonuses from leveling up, but you also can't specialize in any weapons you didn't specialize in at character creation. You get the level one abilities from your first kit, because those are assigned to the character before you edit it, but after that it gives you none of the positives from your kit(s).

You're right in that you still get the drawbacks, though. I just tested a Swashbuckler->Kensai and he had no backstab and couldn't wear armor. But he didn't get any benefits he was supposed to except -1 AC and the weapon I specialized in at character creation.

Don't get me wrong, this is interesting in that you can get the kit titles onto your character sheet if you're planning on editing the character to have the benefits of both kits. But you'll need to edit all the benefits of both kits after level 1 onto your character because the game isn't going to assign them to you. It makes you look like you have both kits, but really you have neither, except for the drawbacks and whatever you had from before editing. I'm just trying to be clear about what the effects are for anyone who wants to try this.

zurathan

my experience is different. i must say.
i get all benfrits except non character creation ones.
is it the difference between steam and beamdog versions?
i should get a beamdog version to confirm this tought.
anyone confirming or disproving??

FinneousPJ

Interesting. A quick test I can confirm a Kensai/Wild Mage multi did not gain any special abilities leveling 1/1 -> 7/7.

zurathan

@FinneousPJ can you tell your game version?
ok as i said b4 multi classes shouldnt get any starting ability coz we didnt create the character, just edited.
can you confirm that no kai gained at lvl 4 ??? this would be my breaking point. why this is only working for me? i dont get it! at all!

FinneousPJ

Yes, no kai was gained. Game v 1.0.2014

FinneousPJ

If I had to guess it doesn't check for the flags properly. In pseudo code it's doing

if playerKitTag == 00000000 00000000 00000100 00000000
// is kensai

when it should be doing

if playerKitTag & 00000000 00000000 00000100 00000000
// is kensai

In the first code it can't recognize a Kensai/Wild Mage as neither kensai nor wild mage. In the second code it could recognize both.

OlleDenStore

I made a single class kensai with 00000000-00000000-00000100-00000000 and that works just fine. It's only when you combine them that things break.
Too bad this doesn't work, I really had my heart set on a kensai/wild mage/swashbuckler munchkin of doom

FinneousPJ

@OlleDenStore Yep, that's exactly how the code I posted would work.

OlleDenStore

FinneousPJ said:

@OlleDenStore Yep, that's exactly how the code I posted would work.

Ok, is there any way to make those changes to the game?

FinneousPJ

For the devs, yes. But not without the source code. AFAIK obviously.

zurathan

i m beggining to think there might be a difference with steam and beamdog versions.
possibly system2 doesnt recognise by beamdog version.
can anyone with steam version confirm that?
othervise this post is doomed.

FinneousPJ

@zurathan It doesn't make a lot of sense that there'd be such a difference.

zurathan

i was thinking with occam's razor or in the sence of logical explanation,
if you read first coments, some could make it work.
of cource it would be absurd to make such a difference... if we identify the problem its at least something.
does beamdog system has gift system? i have a spare steam version of BGEE as a gift card (bought when it was 5$), is it possible to trade with a beamdog version? i wanna try it first hand.

FinneousPJ

@zurathan Why don't you make a character, elf, multi F/M, then edit it into K/WM with

00000000 10000000 00000100 00000000

and see what happens.

zurathan

ok i did that. get lvl 7/7 and not a single kensai or WM ability taken.
then tried creating an elf kensai, edit the kit as k-WM and edit class fighter to F/M then give level to 7/7
something incredible happened. no kensai abitiy improved becide starting, but all WM ability was there including +1spell/lvl... this isnt exact sience i must agree. İ found a bug thats all and just trying to figure out how to exploid it. this is the current situation. lets figure that out together.
anyone wanna add their own experience about this is welcome.

FinneousPJ

@zurathan At least that's an improvement, lol. Half way there.