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IWD2 with BG2 rules and EE engine?

alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
edited October 2013 in Off-Topic
This stems from here:

@bg_sepotter If we took a run at IWD we'd probably try to make it fly with the BG2 rules implementation.

— Trent Oster (@TrentOster) October 11, 2013

Would you like to see a IWD2:EE using the Enhanced Edition engine and thus BG2 rules?

PS: sorry for the typo in the third option (I obviously meant "better", not "butter") but I can't edit it.
  1. IWD2 with BG2 rules and EE engine?77 votes
    1. Like? I'd love it. The EE is the best!
      28.57%
    2. Yes, I would. I prefer 2.5E rules anyway.
      15.58%
    3. Don't think so: after all IWD2's interface is so much butter.
      15.58%
    4. No way, 3E is the only True Edition.
      18.18%
    5. Maybe, depending on how the rules would be implemented (please specify)
        3.90%
    6. I don't care for IWD either way.
        5.19%
    7. I'm not sure, I would need to see reviews first.
        2.60%
    8. I don't want to vote, just show me the results already!
        7.79%
    9. This poll has too many options.
        2.60%
Post edited by Jalily on
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Comments

  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,207
    edited October 2013
    I'd want to see ID:EE with ID2 rules. I really love the sub-races of ID2 and there's even spesific dialogue for quite a few of them... seeing as we haven't gotten sub-races in BG:EE I'd rather they don't apply that rule set onto EE versions of the ID games.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    As a hard core 2E guy I'd love to see that change. I think its more likely pigs will fly, but it sure would be great for me.

    I actually never finished IWD2, I got bored with it. But I loved the first game. So really, I don't even need an EE, just IWD2 using the IWD version of Infinity Engine would make me pretty darn happy...
  • FrecheFreche Member Posts: 473
    If they do, I hope they start from the same engine as for EE, since if they need to make changes in the engine for IWD stuff then those changes would be easy to implement to the BG games if it is something that would improve BG.
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,215
    "IWD2's interface is so much butter." :D:D
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    I'm not sure the OP is taking the quote in the right way. I'm pretty sure that he's talking of making an "EE" of ID1 in BG2's engine.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited October 2013
    Say what you will but I like 3rd edition (I don't think its the "one true edition" though). I really like how Icewind Dale 2 has all the difference skills you can put towards and its general layout. Plus I like the more fleshed out race benefits/consequences. I'd rather them focus on fixing bugs, widescreen support, and including any other features they feel make sense from BG2EE into IWD2.

    Also adding more content (and especially adding lots of content that provides a lot of different text options for roleplayers) would be great.

    Post edited by elminster on
  • bdeonovicbdeonovic Member Posts: 86
    If they made IWD1/2:EE using the BGEE engine...it would be very easy to port over the resources for mods for BGEE (so you could have things like subraces in BGEE, etc) I think that is a great idea
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    scriver said:

    I'm not sure the OP is taking the quote in the right way. I'm pretty sure that he's talking of making an "EE" of ID1 in BG2's engine.

    I don't know whether @TrentOster in the specific quote was talking about IWD1 or IWD2, but the questions asked by @sepotter on Twitter were clearly addressing both games.

    And anyway, the quote was just the inspiration for the poll. I think that IWD1:EE (IWD1 in BGEE engine) has already been discussed enough ;)
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    Freche said:

    If they do, I hope they start from the same engine as for EE, since if they need to make changes in the engine for IWD stuff then those changes would be easy to implement to the BG games if it is something that would improve BG.

    I think that the way Overhaul is handling the EE engine is pretty much "one-size-fits-all"... i.e. they will continue maintaining a single code base for the engine and make it work on different sets of data: BG1, BG2, hopefully PS:T, IWD1, maybe even IWD2 -- although I realise this last one would probably be the hardest to adapt.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    I see no reason why a IWD:EE/IWD2:EE should follow BG2 rules. Instead I'd much preffer if IWD:EE and IWD2:EE uses the same rules implementation as IWD2. In other words D&D 2.75th edition... or whatever you'd like you call this unique mixture of AD&D second edition and D&D 3rd edition rules which IWD2 follows.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Well, in that case. ID2 should stay in 3rd Ed. Both because I like 3rd Ed a lot better and because the ID2 engine is the most advanced of the Infinity Engine versions. "Enhancing" it with the BG2 engine as base would not only mean rewriting the mechanics but also be a roll-back of sorts.

    I wouldn't mind an upgraded ID1 though. They'd have to actually be able to bring some graphical updates this time though, or I wouldn't see the point of it. ID isn't the same kind of game as BG, and just adding characters and new quests won't fit it the way it does with BG.
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    Kamigoroshi said:

    I see no reason why a IWD:EE/IWD2:EE should follow BG2 rules.

    Mostly technical: they would already have an engine ready for it (if you will, the IEEE - Infinity Engine Enhanced Edition). What you propose would probably need an overhaul of IWD2's engine instead, which could not be worth the effort.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    alnair said:

    Mostly technical: they would already have an engine ready for it (if you will, the IEEE - Infinity Engine Enhanced Edition). What you propose would probably need an overhaul of IWD2's engine instead, which could not be worth the effort.

    While an IWD:EE with BG2 rules is entirely possible in my eyes, an IWD2:EE with BG2 rules is not. It's more likely that Overhaul Games would need to overhaul the IEEE just for the sequel alone. Might as well go all the way and get better results in the end.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    3rd edition forever!
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited October 2013
    alnair said:

    Kamigoroshi said:

    I see no reason why a IWD:EE/IWD2:EE should follow BG2 rules.

    Mostly technical: they would already have an engine ready for it (if you will, the IEEE - Infinity Engine Enhanced Edition). What you propose would probably need an overhaul of IWD2's engine instead, which could not be worth the effort.
    But taking the game from 3rd edition rules to 2nd edition rules would mean you'd have to go through and look over every creature file and adjust them accordingly. The benefits for instance for 18 strength in IWD2 are a lot better than 18 (non-exceptional) strength in Baldur's Gate 2. You'd also have to adjust any skills not found in the game to 2nd edition (bluff for instance). I don't think there is really any technical advantage to switching over.
  • CutlassJackCutlassJack Member Posts: 493
    IWD2 is the best game of the Infinity Engine rulewise. I'd absolutely love a redo of IWD1 using the IWD2 ruleset. But not the BGEE ones.

    The Engine improvements are another story entirely.
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited October 2013
    I don't care for IWD, but, in my opinion, even if they decide to enhance it, i don't see that new they can bring that will be worth it.
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    I'd like to play IWD1 with BG2 rules, but not IWD2. Part of what makes IWD2 unique is that it's the only 3rd edition infinity engine game.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    I'd rather they take it as an oppertunity to start fresh and fix all the imbalanced crap thats currently in BG, to be closer to PnP. But aside from that, sure, being 2nd edition would improve IWD2 quite a bit in my mind..and due to 3rd's skill system being pretty similar to the NCP system, even that part could be adapted.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited October 2013
    This won't happen anyway. BGEE sold because of how famous Baldur's Gate was and how well made the game was, it wasn't only for the DnD people but also for normal gamers.

    Icewind dale on the other hand is a dungeon crawl, and was made as a side game to BG for the people who wanted a little bit more. But in the end IWD never got the fame that BG did and only a small following really enjoyed it for what it was while the rest saw it as a downgrade from BG.

    They wouldn't get much money from IWD:EE and i really don't see how it would get any fame. I know many people who enjoy BG but didn't bother getting BG:EE and let me tell you the people who would bother getting IWD:EE here are VERY few.

    I would love to have IWD:EE but it would have to be made on the BG2 engine to save money, and even then i don't think it would sell.

    They made IWD so that people had something to play in between the wait for BG2, they made IWD2 as the last game using the 2D engine. None of them have been a main event, both of them were made for the purpose of giving the people who enjoyed BG a little bit more to play and enjoy.
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    edited October 2013
    SionIV said:

    This won't happen anyway. BGEE sold because of how famous Baldur's Gate was and how well made the game was, it wasn't only for the DnD people but also for normal gamers.

    Icewind dale on the other hand is a dungeon crawl, and was made as a side game to BG for the people who wanted a little bit more. But in the end IWD never got the fame that BG did and only a small following really enjoyed it for what it was while the rest saw it as a downgrade from BG.

    They wouldn't get much money from IWD:EE and i really don't see how it would get any fame. I know many people who enjoy BG but didn't bother getting BG:EE and let me tell you the people who would bother getting IWD:EE here are VERY few.

    I would love to have IWD:EE but it would have to be made on the BG2 engine to save money, and even then i don't think it would sell.

    They made IWD so that people had something to play in between the wait for BG2, they made IWD2 as the last game using the 2D engine. None of them have been a main event, both of them were made for the purpose of giving the people who enjoyed BG a little bit more to play and enjoy.

    I would agree if the target audience of IWD:EE is strictly for BG fans and those who familiar with the IE games.. but it is not the case, one of the targets of the EE is to introduce those games to new audience who never heard of BG/IWD before.

    Furthermore, since IWD is more dungeon crawler than BG in nature I think it is more ideal for the IPad.

    I guess that since IWD1 is using the same rule set of BG2 and same engine it will be easier for Overhaul to enhance it, maybe concentrating more on new content and making the game bigger rather on engine enhancement which they already did by working on BG1/2:EE.

    As for IWD2, unless they will use the same rule set of BG2, I agree it would be a waste of time... The game in my opinion is inferior to the other IE games and the fact it will require much more work to enhance it makes it not worthwhile.

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    IWD's biggest claim is that it is extremely multiplayer friendly. You're actually meant to go through the game with your friends, where as BG's multiplayer is tacked on and has always been clunky, it's also significantly more faithful to the ruleset despite most of those rules being for purely roleplaying reasons.
  • TetraploidTetraploid Member Posts: 252
    I love IWD2. I don't want IWD2-turned-into-BG2. I just want IWD2, thank you very much. I am happy with it how it was! I like flexible multiclassing, I like sub-races, I like choosing feats. The increased depth of character creation suits the more combat-oriented gameplay well. I would not consider the BG2 rules an enhancement of my IWD2 experience.
  • RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
    IWD2 as it was implemented with extra content would be good. Changing the rule set would make it a different game really.
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    Tetraploid said:

    I love IWD2. I don't want IWD2-turned-into-BG2. I just want IWD2, thank you very much.

    Well, you would still have it anyway :)
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    edited October 2013
    I don't like these answers. I don't actually agree that 3E is that great an edition other than how thoroughly it cleaned house with much of 2E's cumbersome nonsense. However, customizing your character as they level through Feats and Skills is a high point of IWD2's ruleset. Also, the Skill system is thoroughly ingrained into IWD2's dialogue. There are dialogue options that only exist if you have certain skills at certain values. BG2EE will have no way of replicating a Fighter with points in Diplomacy or Intimidate.

    A BG2EE ruleset in IWD2 just will not work. BG2EE's ruleset in an Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition, however, would be glorious.
    Post edited by Schneidend on
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    Schneidend said:

    I don't like these answers.

    Sorry, I often fail at being funny :) but they were only meant to be "Yes/No because of the engine" vs "Yes/No because of the rules".
  • alnairalnair Member Posts: 561
    @Jalily
    Thanks for moving the poll, I actually wasn't sure where to post it :)
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