Skip to content

Spell effects adjustements

BlashBlash Member Posts: 249
edited October 2013 in Feature Requests
Please would you revert the changes made to the "Entangle" druid spell? I'm referring to the fact that now it affects party members too.. it was an essential spell, now it makes Jaheira a far less useful member.
Post edited by Blash on

Comments

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Didn't it affect party members in the original game too? I seem to recall it doing so.
  • BlashBlash Member Posts: 249
    edited October 2013
    Post edited by Blash on
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    I recall entagle being very powerful in BG1 for level 1 spell, especially while combined with ranged attack. Also you didn't have to mind your pary members. Only casting time could be considered a disadvantage.

    If anything, I would rather have more AoE spells that affects party members, because it makes tactics important.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited October 2013
    BG2:EE - The day when Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting died.

    Edwin : I'll show those dragons... I'll show them all!
    CHARNAME : Noo Edwin, didn't you read the patch notes!?
    Korgan : Mwahahaha, Diee!
    Viconia : I can understand if Korgan didn't bother with the patch notes, but i'm suprised Edwin didn't read them either.

    *Edwin releases Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting*

    [Game Over]
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    It was actually a correction...it IS supposed to affect any creature that enters the area of effect.

    Now...that said....

    the spell IS supposed to be stronger then it current is. Currently has a +3 save bonus, which is cripplingly bad and makes it significantly worse then Web (-2)

    It's supposed to just be a flat save vs spells.

    AND any creature attempting to move across the area of effect must do so at 1/3 their normal speed, no save or magic resistance allowed, due to the shear volume of vines and roots they have to wade through (this is also supposed to apply to web as well). Though creatures with str greater then 18/00 are completely immune to the spell.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    SionIV said:

    BG2:EE - The day when Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting died.

    Edwin : I'll show those dragons... I'll show them all!
    CHARNAME : Noo Edwin, didn't you read the patch notes!?
    Korgan : Mwahahaha, Diee!
    Viconia : I can understand if Korgan didn't bother with the patch notes, but i'm suprised Edwin didn't read them either.

    *Edwin releases Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting*

    [Game Over]

    The most cheesiest spell in the entire game finally requires some tactics to use it correctly. Poor people.
  • AendaeronBluescaleAendaeronBluescale Member Posts: 335
    edited October 2013
    Entangle is also useful to crowd control panicking, confused and charmed party members, to prevent worse pulls and more damage. It did not lose it's usefulness.
  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 485
    I think the description of Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting specifically says that it doesn't affect party members, why would this be changed?
  • BattlehamsterBattlehamster Member Posts: 298
    scriver said:

    Didn't it affect party members in the original game too? I seem to recall it doing so.

    Played vanilla BG last night - nope!
  • SlytherzSlytherz Member Posts: 45
    I want to say it was corrected in BG 2... As I was playing the TuTu version and almost certain Entangle affected party members... Regardless, it should remain as is... Fireball, Cloudkill, Entangle, should not ifferentiate bewteen friend and foe. Just doesn't fit imo... As far as web goes, same applications apply wiht one exception, (may be i affect already I have no idea) Should be able to move freely through Web if you have a spider druidic form.
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    Entangle. I only used it twice. Once to make Noober leave me alone (I wasn't evil, so I didn't want to kill him; I also didn't know what else to do to deal with him) and once when the guards went aggro in Baldur's Gate (city) - I didn't know how to avoid them, but Entangle worked!
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited October 2013

    It was actually a correction...it IS supposed to affect any creature that enters the area of effect.

    Now...that said....

    the spell IS supposed to be stronger then it current is. Currently has a +3 save bonus, which is cripplingly bad and makes it significantly worse then Web (-2)

    It's supposed to just be a flat save vs spells.

    AND any creature attempting to move across the area of effect must do so at 1/3 their normal speed, no save or magic resistance allowed, due to the shear volume of vines and roots they have to wade through (this is also supposed to apply to web as well). Though creatures with str greater then 18/00 are completely immune to the spell.

    See even just making it so that it has no bonus would go so far to improve its later usefulness. As it stands its just an extremely gimped version of web. It doesn't even do what the description even says it does (it doesn't necessarily entangle someone for the duration of the spell if they fail the save).
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited October 2013
    I mean don't get me wrong, web should be better due to being higher level...but...not that much.

    One thing I've noticed is that A LOT of 1st level spells have penalties they shouldn't have. Chromatic Orb currently has a +6 save bonus, where as most of it's effects are supposed to have save penalties (the 2 blind orbs and the pain orb save at -2) or just a flat save. (and the instant death orb should be at lvl 9. Black Orb, Deals no damage. Target must save vs death or die. If they survive they are stunned for 1d4 rounds. And the spell itself should be Evocation, Alteration making it available to all specialists).

    Charm person currently has a +3 save bonus, where it's just supposed to be a flat save. (Dire Charm is supposed to be at -2). On the other hand, no charm effect should grant you control of a target, just make them friendly to you and act accordingly (with a save once per 24 hours to attempt to break the effect or as long as 3 months between saves if the target has 11 or less int, or unless attacked by the caster or their friends).

    Domination effects are the ones that gives direct control. The fact that charm is stronger then it should be cheapens the distinction between the two and makes Domination look REALLY bad.

    Entangle is already mentioned.

    Magic stone is supposed to create 3 stones to throw (sets apr to 3), instead of 1. (and they deal double damage vs undead).


    Sanctuary is supposed to require a save vs spells any time the priest enters an enemy's LOS , which if successful allows them to attack the priest.


    Protection from evil, I can't remember if it's working correctly or not. It's supposed to prevent charm or domination from working against the warded target. It doesn't outright block the spells, but prevents them from working as long as the creature is warded.
  • BlashBlash Member Posts: 249
    edited October 2013
    I agree! Many spells should be revisited according to the AD&D core rules.. too many are weakened without reason, making some classes less useful than they should be.


    P.S.: I changed the title of this topic ;-)
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Wouldnt the Chromatic Orb w/o the +6 save penalty would be a bit OP? The finger of death is just one doom spell over the chromatic orb and it's lvl 7 compare w/ lvl 1 spell.

    I agree that charm spell shouldnt give control of victim like domination.
  • BlashBlash Member Posts: 249
    I think Magical Stone should be as it's supposed to be.. that would make the druid at least less.. useless.
    @Dee, can you do anything?
    I mean, also considering Jaheira is in the canon party.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Well, the other difference is that the spell doesn't auto-hit. It summons a single throwable orb of the chosen color that then has to be tossed at the target and thus has a chance to miss. Also, you're supposed to be able to choose the type of orb at the time of casting.

    (I'm working on a PnP-accurate version at the moment, but it's slow going since this is the first time I've tried to change a spell this drastically.

    Also, keep in mind, CO requires lvl 9, which makes it roughly equivalent of a 5th level spell. Phantasmal Killer is 4th and only allows a intelligence check to avoid dying.

    Keep in mind, Finger of Death should actually be lower level then it currently is, because it's missing it's OTHER effect. Permanently reanimating the slain target as an undead under the casters control (though the resulting undead is capped at 5 HD, no matter how many the creature had).
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680

    Keep in mind, Finger of Death should actually be lower level then it currently is, because it's missing it's OTHER effect. Permanently reanimating the slain target as an undead under the casters control (though the resulting undead is capped at 5 HD, no matter how many the creature had).

    Well, sort of. Takes 3 days and a special (expensive) ceremony to reanimate the body as a zombie - not terribly practical in BG.

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited October 2013
    And Wish is supposed to age the caster 5 years per use and (wish-resting being explicitly one of the Wishes you CANNOT ask for and will never be fully granted (can only restore up to 4 spells up to 8th level or do something dick-ish like hop the caster 8 hours into the future), Identify temp damage Con by 8 for 24 hours, and a host of other effects and disadvantages left out.


    Say, taking 2 weeks to memorize EACH instance of Dragon's Breath.

    Since the undead wouldn't be permanent nor could they leave the area, I see nothing wrong with instant animation, hell just make it summon a skeleton warrior if kills the target. It's 2 levels higher then animate dead, and would basically just be Slay-living + Animate Dead (Similar to Mislead being Imp Invis + Spectral Force), which is what the PnP version essentially is.


    Hell nearly every Animation spell is supposed to have a permanent duration, as is the evil cleric's Command Undead turning effect. Being able to keep a permanent entourage of undead servants is kind of the main perk of being a Necromancer.
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680
    On the one hand you are arguing that some spells should be brought in line with P&P (i.e. removing chromatic orb save bonus) but other times you are happy to ignore the P&P restrictions (time taken to create finger of death zombies).

    Your choice of argument seems to depend on which outcome you prefer in a particular case. Which makes the whole argument a lot weaker.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited October 2013
    I'm saying that if the ability can function properly without any modifications, then it should do so, and if it's something that wouldn't then the ability can be modified as long as it fits the spirit of the original spell.

    A large majority of the spell can, and should function as their PnP version.


    Finger of death as implement should not be a 7th level spell due to lacking it's main effect...the instant death is NOT the main power of Finger of Death, since that is easily found on much lower level spells. Allowing for the animation of a powerful undead servant is the main draw of Finger of Death.


    The undead created by Finger of Death is a VERY strong undead creature (MR and some other special powers), and is a permanent companion until destroyed. BG can't do that and thus it would only be a temporarily short-term animated minion, which makes it acceptable for it instantly raise a minion (Animate Dead's skeleton warrior is basically what the FoD animated creature would be, except not a skeleton).

    I actually want to revamp all spells to make them fully PnP accurate, but currently it's about working in small steps. Some spells due to the engine require a LOT of work to make them fully PnP accurate, so it's better to find an easier but fair compromise for those spells.


    While spells that can be easily implemented accurately, such as Chromatic Orb should do so (it would function almost identically to Enchanted Weapon, except the list of Orbs it can summon grows larger as you level, up to 9, but only the caster can throw it (replacing their current weapon until thrown). this is an important change, because while it seems like the Black orb would be the only version you use, the other orbs have a bunch of different and situationally useful effects, allowing any slot spent on CO to be used no matter what the situation is, and is that way by design as it gives any mage no matter their specialization (since no mage or specialist loses both evocation and alteration), access to a wide variety of effects (Blindness, direct damage, burning, weakness, magnetism, slow, stun, death, petrifying)
Sign In or Register to comment.