Proper Half-orc bonuses, penalties, maximum stats
ZanathKariashi
Member Posts: 2,869
Due to a recent discussion involving stats, someone brought up the fact that half-orcs don't actually lose int as a penalty, they lose charisma...this prompted me to look into the race and found a gross oversight in the implementation of half-orcs, most of their racial stat caps were missing (where as other races had theirs intact), as was their penalty to charisma. This makes half-orcs FAR better then was ever intended, due to the how powerful their two bonus stats are.
Bonus stats = +1 str, +1 Con
Penalty Stats = -2 Cha
Racial Maximums at creation (after bonuses/penalties applied)
19 Str, 17 Dex, 19 Con, 17 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha
Bonus stats = +1 str, +1 Con
Penalty Stats = -2 Cha
Racial Maximums at creation (after bonuses/penalties applied)
19 Str, 17 Dex, 19 Con, 17 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Cha
Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
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Comments
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/21999/half-orcs#latest
Edit:
Sorry, but I have to correct your post a bit @ZanathKariashi. After taken another glimbs at the Complete Book of Humanoids, the minimum/maximum ability score range of half-orcs would be as following:
Strength: 6/18
Dexterity: 3/17
Constitution: 13/19
Intelligence: 3/17
Wisdom: 3/14
Charisma: 3/12
Edited
Corrected minimum Con requirement. Thanks for pointing out my mistake Zan.
However, the only thing that held a Half-orc back from being a good cleric was their racial cap of 4...which doesn't exist in BG.
And do keep in mind....the majority of those stats lost are useless. Currently half-orcs have no penalty because all they suffer is a maximum of 17 int, which has no purpose, and gain a bonus to TWO good stats.
Considering the other races had all their racial maximums and bonus/penalties implemented properly, I expect the half-orc to receive the same treatment.
@Kamigoroshi
I'm assuming that's simply a typo, as none of the core book races include their racial bonuses in their min/max stats.
In order to even pick that race you must meet the min/max requirements, and then your bonus/penalties are applied...which would drag charisma down 10 and push str up to 19. Con is impossible to roll a 19, so that is clearly a typo to list it as a base maximum of 19.
Also, Con for Half-orcs is 13 minimum, 8 is normal Orcs.
Strength: 7/19
Dexterity: 3/17
Constitution: 14/20
Intelligence: 3/17
Wisdom: 3/14
Charisma: 1/10
I don't know about you @sarevok57, but I assure you I'd take the half-orc over the dwarf any day of the week. :P
@ZanathKariashi Nope, the base 19 Constitution score is not a typo. Otherwise you'll see the same typo at other playable races within the Complete Book of Humanoids as well. Such as the giant-kins, ogre, and half-ogre for example.
And it's specifically stated by magical spells/items, manuals, and wish spells can take characters beyond their racial minimums, and that bonuses from race can also push them over the maximums without issue. So it's not even a higher overall cap.
Generating Ability Scores (pages 7 & 8)
After you've selected the humanoid race you want to play, it's time to create a humanoid player character. You can use any of the six dice rolling methods described in the Player's Handbook, provided the method is approved by your DM. If you want to generate a specific character class, and your DM approves, use either method V or VI.
Each humanoid race entry in this chapter includes ability score modifiers. These are applied to the numbers you generate when creating a humanoid character of a particular racial type. Each humanoid race has its own minimums and maximums. No ability score can fall below the minimum or rise above the maximum without magical or divine aid.
If you have your heart set on playing a particular humanoid race and you roll ability scores that are too high or too low, your DM has the option to allow you to use the racial minimum or maximum for that ability score.
None of the state generating methods can create a stat over 18.
V is the 4d6, drop lowest.
And VI is point buy, with no stat able to raise above 18.
Racial bonuses and penalties are applied later after stats have been rolled.
A maximum above 18 is a non-issue because it's completely impossible, before racial mods, to have higher then 18 Con.
Saying that the maximum Con is 19 (which is completely impossible to have), implies that the racial bonuses have already been included which means str was capped at 17, and minimum charisma was actually 14 but lowered to 2 by the penalty.
The reason is game balance - 19 strength is pretty imbalanced for an opening character because you skip right over the exceptional strength scores. 18/100 strength is pretty imbalanced too, but its very very rare.
Incidentally, low wisdom doesn't restrict the maximum level of divine spell you can cast. It will however give you a percentage chance to fail every spell you cast. That said, given that half-orcs have a maximum cleric level of 4, not many would want to play them!
A character with 16 or less wisdom can only cast up to 5th level divine spells. (or at least they're supposed to. They finally implemented proper int requirements for mages, so who knows...they might add it in at some point).
Though yes, 12 and under wisdom does add progressively larger failure chance (5% per point under 13). (Anomen should have 5% spell failure (well..actually he shouldn't be a cleric AT ALL, but I digress), and Minsc should have 20% failure chance).
Their maximum is only 4 if they're multiclassed.
(Their multiclass caps are 10 fighter, 7 thief, 4 cleric).
Their single class cleric cap is 7, thief is 11, and fighter is 17.
Although the increase in the single class level cap only applies to characters with ability scores above the racial maximum (i.e. through wishes or other magical means). And I can't see too many level 4 half-orc clerics getting much access to that kind of magic!
They can gain an extra 1 level of a class per point of wisdom or dex over the minimum for that class up to 7 cleric or 11 thief if they're single class. (in other words they just need 12 wisdom or dex)
Fighters can get up to 15 if they have 18 str, or 17 with 19+ str.