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[Request] There are two Fallorain's Plate armors.

MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
edited October 2013 in The Road to v1.2
I don't remember where I got the first one from, but the second one dropped from Simmeon on Dorn's quest. This is kind of immersion breaking, especially since the flavour text says: Captain Fallorain wore this this enchanted armor for the last time during the Battle of the Spider Swamp, etc. Anyway just name the other set Simmeon's Plate eg. ;)
Post edited by Dee on

Comments

  • SedSed Member Posts: 790
    There are actually more of them, if you manage to kill (or Ctrl+Y) the talking armors in Firewine Ruins.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    There are a number of duplicated unique items across the series. BG:EE has added an additional Rashad's Talon (+2 scimitar) which the flavor text indicates is unique. Several Varsconas can be obtained by Elves from Suldenesselar. I'm pretty sure the Helmet of Defense is available multiple times in BG2 as well.

    I guess it's not perfect, but if it annoys you then consider the second one to be a copy made in imitation of the famous original. There are probably dozens of Defender enchanted scimitars out there in PnP groups with the owner insisting he's not copying a certain Drow Ranger.
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    This is a known issue (#2745 in our bug tracker) I'll be looking into. Feel free to report other non-unique unique items you come across though (in either game).
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    @Miloch as Corvino said there are also two Rashad's Talons in the game. One of them is at the top of Durlag's Tower, and the other in AR2100 in a pile of loot near the shore. Though hopefully this is a known issue too since myself, and probably others too, have already reported it. ;)
  • BasillicumBasillicum Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 400
    edited October 2013
    @Miloch I'm uncertain how critical one should be when determining whether an item is supposed to be completely unique or not.

    For instance, Batalista's Passport (Ring of Fire Resistance) is attainable once in the catacombs beneath Candlekeep and once in a hidden spot in AR5500. Its description implies that it is unique, but on the other hand its usefulness makes it likely that someone would attempt to duplicate it. Maybe the two items could be given different names and descriptions?
  • SasayakiSasayaki Member Posts: 137
    @Miloch, if you were genuinely considering "unique-ifying" the +1 Full Plate from Simmeon (Dorn's Quest NPC), can I suggest the following? I typed it up tonight and I feel it's appropriate for a blackguard to wear.

    Visage of the Pit
    +1 Full Plate

    Forged from an unknown metal, the Visage of the Pit is an unsettling device at best. Comprised of thousands of tiny metallic spiders, the armour shifts and adjusts itself to fit a bearer of almost any shape and size, including non-humanoid forms. Each individual spider was hand forged in the depths of the Demonweb Pits and the collection made its way to the Prime through means unknown. Rumours persist that the spiders can rearrange themselves to form other types of armour, weapons, even devices such as siege engines, but so far all efforts to command them in this way have been futile.
  • SasayakiSasayaki Member Posts: 137
    Could even make it something like "+1 Full Plate, +2 when worn by Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil."
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    I think Neverwinter Nights frequently used the idea that items available to the player from various shops (Bag of holding X% etc) were mass-produced and not as powerful as some artifact level items. But then NWN had magic item oversaturation, if you rented a room at an Inn you likely got a +2 pillow of comfyness.
  • KithrixxKithrixx Member Posts: 215
    edited October 2013
    The way that Lore works is that the history of the item is, at best, a guess. After identifying the item's function, it's just a simple question of figuring out which story fits the effects the best. Sometimes, a Ring of Fire Resistance is just a Ring of Fire Resistance, but if there's a Ring of Fire Resistance with a story attached to it kicking around somewhere, people are going to immediately assume that it's the same one from the story.

    Copies or similar items or whatever happen. I really don't think we need to go through and delete or rename all of the duplicate unique items because counterfeiting is a profession as old as time.
  • BasillicumBasillicum Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 400
    @Kithrixx I would agree with you if Lore was the only way to identify an item, which it isn't. With the spell Identify a character is magically bestowed the knowledge of an item's name, function and history.

    It would be fun to get even more unique descriptors to items in the games, I think.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Rather than unique description, the description could be changed to imply there was more than one of these items made. Rings of protection +1 are all from the same set of rings made for a royal family, for example. Similarly there are a couple of generic +2 swords in BG2 that state that there used to be a whole army equipped with them.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    Corvino said:

    I think Neverwinter Nights frequently used the idea that items available to the player from various shops (Bag of holding X% etc) were mass-produced and not as powerful as some artifact level items. But then NWN had magic item oversaturation, if you rented a room at an Inn you likely got a +2 pillow of comfyness.

    I really disliked that in Neverwinter Nights. I want unique magical items, not tons of boring copies of one item - that's what the generic +1, or +2 items without any fluff are for.
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    Calmar said:

    Corvino said:

    I think Neverwinter Nights frequently used the idea that items available to the player from various shops (Bag of holding X% etc) were mass-produced and not as powerful as some artifact level items. But then NWN had magic item oversaturation, if you rented a room at an Inn you likely got a +2 pillow of comfyness.

    I really disliked that in Neverwinter Nights. I want unique magical items, not tons of boring copies of one item - that's what the generic +1, or +2 items without any fluff are for.
    Agreed. Interesting unique items were one of the strengths of the IE games. On the other hand, at least I don't remember a single item from NWN.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    Messi said:

    Calmar said:

    Corvino said:

    I think Neverwinter Nights frequently used the idea that items available to the player from various shops (Bag of holding X% etc) were mass-produced and not as powerful as some artifact level items. But then NWN had magic item oversaturation, if you rented a room at an Inn you likely got a +2 pillow of comfyness.

    I really disliked that in Neverwinter Nights. I want unique magical items, not tons of boring copies of one item - that's what the generic +1, or +2 items without any fluff are for.
    Agreed. Interesting unique items were one of the strengths of the IE games. On the other hand, at least I don't remember a single item from NWN.
    At some point I got tired of reading that my shiny new and powerful treasure was again just one of many copies and stopped reading the descriptions. Diablo II's randomly generated items were more unique and flavourful than that NWN stuff.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Just for clarification, this isn't a bug so much as it is an inconsistency (or a feature request, depending on how you look at it).
  • ThunderThunder Member Posts: 157
    edited October 2013
    Dee said:

    Just for clarification, this isn't a bug so much as it is an inconsistency (or a feature request, depending on how you look at it).

    It's clearly bugging some people. Hehehe.
  • RemenissionsRemenissions Member Posts: 102
    The idea, as I was always told by old 80's & 90's PnP D&D players was that a kind of item (scimitar, longsword, ring, armor, etc) and it's enchantment are given names whenever a legendary character starts being known for them (ex. twinkle is known because of drizzt). However, the more powerful the mage, the more power the enchantment and the more likely it is to come out right. So a lvl30 mage would easily be able to enchant some random scimitar with the same attributes and everyone would still call it twinkle. It's not drizzt's twinkle, but it's still a twinkle. There's a few items though that were made by mage-classed gods which they usually just make one of to give to a loyal worshiper or something. Those are called artifacts which something like carsomyr would fall into.

    I'm not completely sure, I'll them the next time I talk to them, but I think in v1.0-v2.5 it took a mages being:
    lvl15= enchant +1
    lvl20= +2
    lvl25= +3, or +2 with extras
    lvl30= +4, or +3 with extras
    lvl30 or higher mage-god (mostly gods are multiclassed but few of them are higher then 20 in mage)= +5 or +6 and with extras
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    edited October 2013
    Another duplicate item is the Golden Girdle of Urnst it drops from Kirian in Mutamin's Garden(AR3500). I don't know where the other one is from, but since only one of these existed in vanilla BG1 it's most likely from Dorn's quest.

    Edit: Checked Gamebanshee's awesome BGEE walkthrough. The second girdle is indeed from Simmeon.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Simmeon just has all these duplicate items, they're probably cheap knockoffs he got from a street merchant.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Indeed, Simmeon is quite a naughty boy. Dealing with Demons, betraying Dorn, and now introducing lore-based controversies. Tut tut.
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    @Miloch since you seem to be looking at these items I saw one more case of duplicate unique item during my playthrough. There are at least two Heart of the Golem daggers available in BGEE.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Messi said:

    @Miloch since you seem to be looking at these items I saw one more case of duplicate unique item during my playthrough. There are at least two Heart of the Golem daggers available in BGEE.

    Can you remember where the second one is? The first is obviously from the Valley of the Tombs and the Revenant quest there. I think the second is in Baldur's Gate, but I have no idea where?

    At least Simmeon doesn't have this one. The guy really needed to check his suppliers, but I guess his contract with his patron was poorly worded and he got the shaft when it came to employer maintenance.
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