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Swashbuckler weapon choices

Running a swashbuckler now as another possibility to import into BG2EE when it comes out. It seems typical that people duel wield with swashies, however, I've already got a stalker and a cleric/ranger to import into BG2, both duel wielding, so I wanted to try something different.

Is it that big of a difference to use, for instance, ** quarterstaff and * two-handed weapon style for a swashie, instead, maybe with a pip in shortbow for a bit of ranged?

Thoughts?

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Comments

  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    Swashbucklers should always dual weild scimitars or short swords. No exceptions.

    T2av
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 405
    For me on my swashbuckler I like dual wielding a Longsword in my main hand and a Scimitar with +apr in my off hand. If I'm going to use a swashy as a main frontline dps a +apr weapon is a must for me.

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Using a quarterstaff is a bit of a waste as a Swashy. You miss out on the higher damage output and APR of dual wielding without the AC bonus you get from 1-handed style or a buckler.

    The major drawback of a low level Swashbuckler is scarcity of weapon proficiency points. 2 at creation, 1 at levels 4 and 8. Barely enough to specialise in 1 weapon and 1 style by the end of BG:EE.

    It's less of an issue if you're dualling to Mage at 5 or 10 though, for which a pip in shortbows or crossbows goes a long way.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    For BG2, you definitely want to maximize APR; that means Kundane (short sword), Belm (scimitar) or Scarlet Ninja-to (ninja-to, requires Use Any Item). If you aren't taking them away from other characters that could potentially make better use of them, dual-wield those to make the most out of your stacking +damage/hit bonuses. If you want to spread the wealth, put one of the three into your offhand, and use whatever the best mainhand is that you can get your hands on; there are several to choose from.

    Since Swashbucklers can't backstab, you don't really need to put points into quarterstaff - although Whirlwind Attack with Staff of the Ram+6 can be quite tempting... ;) Also, I'm pretty sure the Swashbuckler bonuses only apply to melee weapons, so ranged weapons are a waste.

    Eudaemonium
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I love the Scarlet Ninja-to. I just think it looks super cool. The bonus damage doesn't hurt either. Pity you need to be a (part-)Thief to use it, really (or a Monk, I guess, but who plays them? And out of those that do, who use a weapon?)

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Swashbucklers can only specialise in melee weapons but I think their THAC0 bonus applies to ranged as well. Normally I'd agree that ranged is a waste for them, but for Swash->Mage duals it has a role.

  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    It's a weird concept... I always pictured the swashbuckler as a pirate type and what kind of pirate uses a staff?

    Plus as others have said, attacks/round is king and as a swashbuckler you can't really afford to give up any attacks as you don't get the fighter progression or grand mastery and your kit ability adds a flat amount damage to each attack. I say leave the staff wielding to the backstabbing thieves.

  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    Swashbuckler's don't get any bonus apr, so dual wielding is practically a must if you plan to use him effectively in melee (and to go melee is the whole point of playing swash).

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    A lot of people advocate dual wielding 2 "speed weapons" to get 4 APR, though this does really restrict your weapon choices.

    Roleplay-wise, I can see a Swashbuckler dual wielding or fencing with a single weapon but quarterstaves don't feature.

  • BasillicumBasillicum Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 400
    dib said:

    Swashbucklers should always dual weild scimitars or short swords. No exceptions.

    Because they're pirates! Right?

    Southpaw
  • LuxeflexLuxeflex Member Posts: 7
    Two longswords in BG:EE and maybe a scimitar and a longsword in BG2:EE.

  • dibdib Member Posts: 384

    dib said:

    Swashbucklers should always dual weild scimitars or short swords. No exceptions.

    Because they're pirates! Right?
    Yaaarrrr!

  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 486
    2 pips in scimitar, 2 pips in two weapon style and wield Dritzz's scimitars. In BG2:EE get Belm to off hand and possibly Usono's Blade as main from Watcher's Keep level 1 (if you can manage it).

    2nd pip in scimitars is optional, because it doesn't give you 1/2 APR (that's for figthers classes only) so you'll only get +1 thac0 and +2 damage from it. However if you are happy with scimitars/wakizashis/ninja-tos, go for it.

    If you are dualing into Mage, you don't necessarily need a ranged weapon because you can use Melf's Minute Meteors, swashy bonus applies. Daggers are also an option, 2 APR and strength bonus applies plus you can use Mage proficiency points to get them.

    smeagolheart
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    How are people not seeing the connection between quarterstaves and oars? A pirate in the less glorious role of oarsman who develops a fighting style based on fighting with an oar out of necessity is an awesome idea.

    dib said:

    Swashbucklers should always dual weild scimitars or short swords. No exceptions.

    Because they're pirates! Right?
    Aye because its an Ahrrr Pee Gee!

    I think you mean *it be* an Ahrrr Pee Gee, if we're in pirate mode.

    CutlassJackRnRClown
  • thespacethespace Member Posts: 1,039
    edited October 2013
    I appreciate everyone's feedback. Good advice. However, it seems to have squashed my interest in running a swashbuckler, as I already have a duel wielding stalker and cleric/ranger that I won BGEE with, than I plan on importing into BG2EE.

    It seems like a swashbuckler would just end up as being a gimped version of one of these characters, as I don't really need thief skills as Jan Jansen is one of my favorite NPCs in BG2.

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    If you're dead set on using quarterstaves on a thief then consider a Bounty Hunter. Staves for backstabbing, Shortbows or Crossbows for ranged support after you backstab, and you should have enough skill points to be a decent utility thief too. But the icing on the cake is a set of specialist traps that will remain useful even after you get HLA traps.

  • thespacethespace Member Posts: 1,039
    edited October 2013
    Corvino said:

    If you're dead set on using quarterstaves on a thief then consider a Bounty Hunter. Staves for backstabbing, Shortbows or Crossbows for ranged support after you backstab, and you should have enough skill points to be a decent utility thief too. But the icing on the cake is a set of specialist traps that will remain useful even after you get HLA traps.

    I appreciate the advice, however, I've already got a kick-ass quarterstaff/dart-throwing halfling fighter/thief to import into BG2EE. I haven't experimented hardly at all with traps, however, so I may consider something like this in the future.

    Could my F/T get fairly good at traps? What direction for skill points may be a great strategy in taking this character (who was backstab/dart throwing focused in BG1) into BG2? Keep in mind that I will most definitely be bringing Jan Jansen around as my backup thief, even hoping to put together an all shorty party, as that's how I rolled with this character in BG1. This is what Finn looks like at endgame BG1:

    Finn (a Chaotic Good halfling spawn of Bhaal) Fighter 7/Thief 8

    STR 18
    DEX 20
    CON 19
    INT 14
    WIS 12
    CHA 16

    Halflings are so bad-ass that this character's thief skills resemble a single classed human thief's at this point. This is with no gear enhancements.

    M. Silently - 100
    F. Traps - 86
    P. Pockets - 40
    O. Locks - 70
    H. I. Shadows - 100
    D. Illusion - 0
    S. Traps - 15

    ** Quarterstaff
    ** Darts
    * Longbow
    * Two-handed Weapon Style

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Regular thief traps are useful for setting in an area you know an enemy will become hostile in to do some initial damage (and usually before spell protections are up, to boot), but Bounty Hunter and HLA traps are more complex. Your Fighter/Thief will get access to HLA traps anyway and you don't need any points in set traps for them to work.

    It looks like you'll have plenty of skillpoints to spare though, so once you've maxed Find Traps and Open Locks (which gain no benefit past 100) feel free to get trapping! (NB. Stealth skills do benefit from going up to 200 if you intend to use them extensively in daylight, but it's mostly not needed)

    thespace
  • thespacethespace Member Posts: 1,039
    Corvino said:


    It looks like you'll have plenty of skillpoints to spare though, so once you've maxed Find Traps and Open Locks (which gain no benefit past 100) feel free to get trapping! (NB. Stealth skills do benefit from going up to 200 if you intend to use them extensively in daylight, but it's mostly not needed)

    I suppose, considering I'll likely have Jan Jansen in tow, I could get to trapping earlier, possibly maxing out the traps/locks with Jan.

    Also, what about detect illusion? I've never used this ever.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    Detect Illusions is pretty awesome. Not unreplaceably awesome, but handy to have.

  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 405
    edited October 2013
    thespace said:

    Corvino said:


    It looks like you'll have plenty of skillpoints to spare though, so once you've maxed Find Traps and Open Locks (which gain no benefit past 100) feel free to get trapping! (NB. Stealth skills do benefit from going up to 200 if you intend to use them extensively in daylight, but it's mostly not needed)

    I suppose, considering I'll likely have Jan Jansen in tow, I could get to trapping earlier, possibly maxing out the traps/locks with Jan.

    Also, what about detect illusion? I've never used this ever.

    Think of detect illusion like adding tue seeing to being in find traps mode so instead of just revealing traps it also dispels all illusions nearby so those pesky mirror images... invisibilities, shadow doors, etc all go away without you having to use spells like true seeing.

    Its more useful in BG2 than BG1 but its a skill I tend to focus on once my FT and OL are 100% especially if I dont have an Inquisitor in my party.

    thespace
  • ZarakinthishZarakinthish Member Posts: 214
    Nic_Mercy beat me to it. Being able to detect illusions is quite powerful. While traps can be quite powerful, using them is kind of limited in my experience unless you use foreknowledge of the game.

    thespace
  • thespacethespace Member Posts: 1,039

    Nic_Mercy beat me to it. Being able to detect illusions is quite powerful. While traps can be quite powerful, using them is kind of limited in my experience unless you use foreknowledge of the game.

    Well, since I've forgotten most of BG2, since it's been many years since I've played it, and thus will feel more like a suspenseful dungeon crawl, it seems that detect illusions is a better way to go for the first time.

  • thespacethespace Member Posts: 1,039
    I went ahead and started a Swashie run last night anyway. I went with ** in Scimitars to begin with, no ranged, b/c I didn't want to go the long haul to actually duel wield.

    So far it's quite fun, although I have to be more careful than usual (squishier character than I'm used to). I'm currently running with:

    Swashie
    Imoen (bows & later maybe darts too, for stun fun)
    Garrick (crossbows & maybe darts as well, as I really dig stunning)
    Minsc (D got killed by gnolls...didn't like her, so we buried her at the fortress, gonna duel wield maces (Stupifier!) b/c I find that is the funnest way to run him...will most certainly have the lion's share of kills this go around)

    I might try to run the whole game with this odd ball pack, probably dueling Imoen to mage around lvl 6, to have a real caster.

    JuliusBorisov
  • thespacethespace Member Posts: 1,039
    Update...

    This game is going good so far, although early level swashbucklers are apparently considerably weaker than the stalkers I'm used to playing, battles taking longer b/c of this. Garrick stole Drizzts scimitars for her and my (human female) swashbuckler finally got the stealth armor, so she's looking pretty bad ass now, and starting to have some umph. Her and Minsc battling side by side, both duel wielding.

    I'm wondering...even though she can't backstab, can she still get a bonus to hit when attacking from stealth?

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    thespace said:

    I'm wondering...even though she can't backstab, can she still get a bonus to hit when attacking from stealth?

    Probably. Afaik the way it works is simply that for Swashies the BS multiplier is set to "x1", the rest shouldn't be affected. Might be wrong though, haven't tested this.

  • KoyoteKoyote Member Posts: 89
    Yes you do get the to hit bonus for attacking from stealth on swashbuckler.
    I was a little shocked how quickly the idea of a staff wielding swashbuckler was shot down. I actually ran one, and its burst damage was nothing to spit at (and neither was its AC late game).

    thespaceRnRClown
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    It's not a bad build. There's several strong staves at various points in the game, including Staff of the Ram+6 which is quite impressive damage. At that point a Swashbuckler also has access to WWA, and a 10 APR Ramming is quite a thing.

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