For me on my swashbuckler I like dual wielding a Longsword in my main hand and a Scimitar with +apr in my off hand. If I'm going to use a swashy as a main frontline dps a +apr weapon is a must for me.
Using a quarterstaff is a bit of a waste as a Swashy. You miss out on the higher damage output and APR of dual wielding without the AC bonus you get from 1-handed style or a buckler.
The major drawback of a low level Swashbuckler is scarcity of weapon proficiency points. 2 at creation, 1 at levels 4 and 8. Barely enough to specialise in 1 weapon and 1 style by the end of BG:EE.
It's less of an issue if you're dualling to Mage at 5 or 10 though, for which a pip in shortbows or crossbows goes a long way.
For BG2, you definitely want to maximize APR; that means Kundane (short sword), Belm (scimitar) or Scarlet Ninja-to (ninja-to, requires Use Any Item). If you aren't taking them away from other characters that could potentially make better use of them, dual-wield those to make the most out of your stacking +damage/hit bonuses. If you want to spread the wealth, put one of the three into your offhand, and use whatever the best mainhand is that you can get your hands on; there are several to choose from.
Since Swashbucklers can't backstab, you don't really need to put points into quarterstaff - although Whirlwind Attack with Staff of the Ram+6 can be quite tempting... Also, I'm pretty sure the Swashbuckler bonuses only apply to melee weapons, so ranged weapons are a waste.
I love the Scarlet Ninja-to. I just think it looks super cool. The bonus damage doesn't hurt either. Pity you need to be a (part-)Thief to use it, really (or a Monk, I guess, but who plays them? And out of those that do, who use a weapon?)
Swashbucklers can only specialise in melee weapons but I think their THAC0 bonus applies to ranged as well. Normally I'd agree that ranged is a waste for them, but for Swash->Mage duals it has a role.
It's a weird concept... I always pictured the swashbuckler as a pirate type and what kind of pirate uses a staff?
Plus as others have said, attacks/round is king and as a swashbuckler you can't really afford to give up any attacks as you don't get the fighter progression or grand mastery and your kit ability adds a flat amount damage to each attack. I say leave the staff wielding to the backstabbing thieves.
Swashbuckler's don't get any bonus apr, so dual wielding is practically a must if you plan to use him effectively in melee (and to go melee is the whole point of playing swash).
2 pips in scimitar, 2 pips in two weapon style and wield Dritzz's scimitars. In BG2:EE get Belm to off hand and possibly Usono's Blade as main from Watcher's Keep level 1 (if you can manage it).
2nd pip in scimitars is optional, because it doesn't give you 1/2 APR (that's for figthers classes only) so you'll only get +1 thac0 and +2 damage from it. However if you are happy with scimitars/wakizashis/ninja-tos, go for it.
If you are dualing into Mage, you don't necessarily need a ranged weapon because you can use Melf's Minute Meteors, swashy bonus applies. Daggers are also an option, 2 APR and strength bonus applies plus you can use Mage proficiency points to get them.
How are people not seeing the connection between quarterstaves and oars? A pirate in the less glorious role of oarsman who develops a fighting style based on fighting with an oar out of necessity is an awesome idea.
If you're dead set on using quarterstaves on a thief then consider a Bounty Hunter. Staves for backstabbing, Shortbows or Crossbows for ranged support after you backstab, and you should have enough skill points to be a decent utility thief too. But the icing on the cake is a set of specialist traps that will remain useful even after you get HLA traps.
Regular thief traps are useful for setting in an area you know an enemy will become hostile in to do some initial damage (and usually before spell protections are up, to boot), but Bounty Hunter and HLA traps are more complex. Your Fighter/Thief will get access to HLA traps anyway and you don't need any points in set traps for them to work.
It looks like you'll have plenty of skillpoints to spare though, so once you've maxed Find Traps and Open Locks (which gain no benefit past 100) feel free to get trapping! (NB. Stealth skills do benefit from going up to 200 if you intend to use them extensively in daylight, but it's mostly not needed)
It looks like you'll have plenty of skillpoints to spare though, so once you've maxed Find Traps and Open Locks (which gain no benefit past 100) feel free to get trapping! (NB. Stealth skills do benefit from going up to 200 if you intend to use them extensively in daylight, but it's mostly not needed)
I suppose, considering I'll likely have Jan Jansen in tow, I could get to trapping earlier, possibly maxing out the traps/locks with Jan.
Also, what about detect illusion? I've never used this ever.
Think of detect illusion like adding tue seeing to being in find traps mode so instead of just revealing traps it also dispels all illusions nearby so those pesky mirror images... invisibilities, shadow doors, etc all go away without you having to use spells like true seeing.
Its more useful in BG2 than BG1 but its a skill I tend to focus on once my FT and OL are 100% especially if I dont have an Inquisitor in my party.
Nic_Mercy beat me to it. Being able to detect illusions is quite powerful. While traps can be quite powerful, using them is kind of limited in my experience unless you use foreknowledge of the game.
Ok, let me offer you a different take on BG:EE swashbuckler.
We can talk until we're blue in the face about attacks per round and items that will arrive later in BG2. However, that doesn't especially matter in BG1. When I made a swashbuckler, after careful thought I made a female elven swashbuckler.
With 19 Dex, you have excellent thief skills (I like maxxing out lockpicking so you can start with the 1000gp gem upstairs at Winthrop's) and excellent AC and ranged bonuses. Elves get a THAC0 bonus with longswords and bows, so I put my starting proficiencies in Longsword* and Shortbow*. Yes, swashbuckler bonuses DO apply to ranged attacks.
From there, I put my next 2 points into Single-Weapon Style to be a better tank (plus, critical hits are fun). You can end the game with entirely decent AC considering -3 from class and -2 from SWS. Quaff a Potion of Defense to get truly absurd.
This results in a build that is resilient, has ranged options and anything you want to change will have enough proficiency points in BG2 to make those adjustments in the big picture. This build was downright fun and I look forward to playing it in BG2 sometime after my jester runthrough.
I'm wondering...even though she can't backstab, can she still get a bonus to hit when attacking from stealth?
Probably. Afaik the way it works is simply that for Swashies the BS multiplier is set to "x1", the rest shouldn't be affected. Might be wrong though, haven't tested this.
Yes you do get the to hit bonus for attacking from stealth on swashbuckler. I was a little shocked how quickly the idea of a staff wielding swashbuckler was shot down. I actually ran one, and its burst damage was nothing to spit at (and neither was its AC late game).
It's not a bad build. There's several strong staves at various points in the game, including Staff of the Ram+6 which is quite impressive damage. At that point a Swashbuckler also has access to WWA, and a 10 APR Ramming is quite a thing.
Comments
The major drawback of a low level Swashbuckler is scarcity of weapon proficiency points. 2 at creation, 1 at levels 4 and 8. Barely enough to specialise in 1 weapon and 1 style by the end of BG:EE.
It's less of an issue if you're dualling to Mage at 5 or 10 though, for which a pip in shortbows or crossbows goes a long way.
Since Swashbucklers can't backstab, you don't really need to put points into quarterstaff - although Whirlwind Attack with Staff of the Ram+6 can be quite tempting...
Plus as others have said, attacks/round is king and as a swashbuckler you can't really afford to give up any attacks as you don't get the fighter progression or grand mastery and your kit ability adds a flat amount damage to each attack. I say leave the staff wielding to the backstabbing thieves.
Roleplay-wise, I can see a Swashbuckler dual wielding or fencing with a single weapon but quarterstaves don't feature.
2nd pip in scimitars is optional, because it doesn't give you 1/2 APR (that's for figthers classes only) so you'll only get +1 thac0 and +2 damage from it. However if you are happy with scimitars/wakizashis/ninja-tos, go for it.
If you are dualing into Mage, you don't necessarily need a ranged weapon because you can use Melf's Minute Meteors, swashy bonus applies. Daggers are also an option, 2 APR and strength bonus applies plus you can use Mage proficiency points to get them.
It looks like you'll have plenty of skillpoints to spare though, so once you've maxed Find Traps and Open Locks (which gain no benefit past 100) feel free to get trapping! (NB. Stealth skills do benefit from going up to 200 if you intend to use them extensively in daylight, but it's mostly not needed)
Its more useful in BG2 than BG1 but its a skill I tend to focus on once my FT and OL are 100% especially if I dont have an Inquisitor in my party.
We can talk until we're blue in the face about attacks per round and items that will arrive later in BG2. However, that doesn't especially matter in BG1. When I made a swashbuckler, after careful thought I made a female elven swashbuckler.
With 19 Dex, you have excellent thief skills (I like maxxing out lockpicking so you can start with the 1000gp gem upstairs at Winthrop's) and excellent AC and ranged bonuses. Elves get a THAC0 bonus with longswords and bows, so I put my starting proficiencies in Longsword* and Shortbow*. Yes, swashbuckler bonuses DO apply to ranged attacks.
From there, I put my next 2 points into Single-Weapon Style to be a better tank (plus, critical hits are fun). You can end the game with entirely decent AC considering -3 from class and -2 from SWS. Quaff a Potion of Defense to get truly absurd.
This results in a build that is resilient, has ranged options and anything you want to change will have enough proficiency points in BG2 to make those adjustments in the big picture. This build was downright fun and I look forward to playing it in BG2 sometime after my jester runthrough.
I was a little shocked how quickly the idea of a staff wielding swashbuckler was shot down. I actually ran one, and its burst damage was nothing to spit at (and neither was its AC late game).