Need some advice/tips on Main char and party composition
Terwox
Member Posts: 20
Sadly, I kind off missed the boat on BG1 when it was originally released. Although I did play BG2 abit. So I have some familiarity with Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Edwin and Imoen. But its been ages since I've played any off the games. And I recently decided to fire BG:EE up and was, quite frankly, abit overwhelmed. So I was hoping to get some additional advice and insight from people who, as opposed to me, knows what they're talking about on the subject. Oh and just as a disclaimer, I am bad at this game. So please don't take anything I say as advise unless its backed up by people who know what they're talking about.
My test run character:
Male Half Orc Berserker
Chaotic Good
str 19
dex 18
con 19
int 10
wis 10
cha 15
Bastard Sword 2
Sword and Shield Style 2
The intention was a meat shield that could still deal out some pain. Got a lucky roll on the stats after... too many rerolls. Charisma was there simply because how it, as far as I can remember, affects npc reaction towards you.
Anyway the party I ended up rolling with by the time I got to Baldur's Gate itself in said test run.
Ajantis: Didn't like his low dex so much though. But otherwise happy with him.
Branwen: I really wanted Viconia, but I was playing a more goody two shoes. And I seem to recall Viconia leaving if you get above 18 reputation.
Kivan: Now that I think off it, not sure why I kept him around.
Coran: He seems less powerful than in original BG1 (from what little I remember.). But he still seem to pack a mean punch with that composite longbow +1.
Neera: Mostly because I wanted to have one off the new npc's in the party, and she was the first one I ran into. And as the game rolled on, I just kept her around.
Honorable mentions: Safana was the first one I picked up after getting out off Candlekeep. Coran took her place. And at some point Jaheira/Khalid travelled with me for a while. As well as Minsc. Poor Imoen was among the first to get ditched.
Anywho. That's what I ended up fiddling with throughout the test run which brought me up to the point off Baldur's Gate itself. For the most part I enjoy playing a more simple hack and slash single class type off character. But in games like the BG and IWD games I tend to end up with a party off at least 1 "tank", 1 rogue or character capable off trap detection/disarming and hide in shadows, 1 cleric/healer, 1 mage. With the last two slots being more up for grabs for anything that fits/compliments the party.
So now that I at least feel like I'm not stumbling around tripping over my own feet in the game. I've decided to make a new character, will probably also up the difficulty from normal to core. And I'll play more akin to my character's alignment. Kind off silly to pick Chaotic Good if you play as if Lawful Good. I have also found another character build that caught my interest, as an alternative to my previous brute force berserker. Which is as follows:
Male Human Berserker/Cleric
Chaotic Good
str 18/00 (if the rng God favors me)
dex 18
con 18
int 10 (could possibly drop this if I don't get high enough rolls)
wis 18
cha 10 (could possibly drop this if I don't get high enough rolls)
Warhammer 2
Sword and Shield Style 2
From what I've heard the earliest you want to dual class this is once you've hit lvl 5 berserker. Although I've seen people advise waiting until you're up too lvl 9. As for which specific cleric kit to dual class too. Not sure. Then again I don't even know if you dual class to a specific cleric kit. Or just generic Cleric. Anyway, from what I understand the pure berserker will be a bigger melee powerhouse, but the addition off cleric spells for the fighter/cleric is nothing to scoff at. Even after the stats hit. Both choices appeal to my playstyle. Buff up, run in, smack in face til dead. So I'll be having a blast either way. Also, keep in mind, I'm not dead set on the stats/race/class. So any advise will be welcome.
My current thinking for my party is as follows:
Tank: Me
Thief/rogue: Imoen until Safana, and Safana until Coran.
Cleric/healer: Branwen at least until Viconia. Not sure which one to keep after.
Mage: Neera or Edwin.
The other 2 slots: To be honest, I'm not sure. I love Minsc, but I have no connection to Dynaheir beyond what I found out in BG2. Same goes for Jaheira and Khalid.
Thing about this playthrough is I'm not going to play a goody two shoes lawful good, so beyond the risk off having npc's leave if I get too high reputation. The npc's alignment isn't much off a concern for me. Although it would be nice to not have my party members try to kill each other. At any rate. There you have it. Like I've mentioned. I am not dead set on any off my current choices. And any advise concerning my main character and what party members to bring along will be greatly appreciated.
My test run character:
Male Half Orc Berserker
Chaotic Good
str 19
dex 18
con 19
int 10
wis 10
cha 15
Bastard Sword 2
Sword and Shield Style 2
The intention was a meat shield that could still deal out some pain. Got a lucky roll on the stats after... too many rerolls. Charisma was there simply because how it, as far as I can remember, affects npc reaction towards you.
Anyway the party I ended up rolling with by the time I got to Baldur's Gate itself in said test run.
Ajantis: Didn't like his low dex so much though. But otherwise happy with him.
Branwen: I really wanted Viconia, but I was playing a more goody two shoes. And I seem to recall Viconia leaving if you get above 18 reputation.
Kivan: Now that I think off it, not sure why I kept him around.
Coran: He seems less powerful than in original BG1 (from what little I remember.). But he still seem to pack a mean punch with that composite longbow +1.
Neera: Mostly because I wanted to have one off the new npc's in the party, and she was the first one I ran into. And as the game rolled on, I just kept her around.
Honorable mentions: Safana was the first one I picked up after getting out off Candlekeep. Coran took her place. And at some point Jaheira/Khalid travelled with me for a while. As well as Minsc. Poor Imoen was among the first to get ditched.
Anywho. That's what I ended up fiddling with throughout the test run which brought me up to the point off Baldur's Gate itself. For the most part I enjoy playing a more simple hack and slash single class type off character. But in games like the BG and IWD games I tend to end up with a party off at least 1 "tank", 1 rogue or character capable off trap detection/disarming and hide in shadows, 1 cleric/healer, 1 mage. With the last two slots being more up for grabs for anything that fits/compliments the party.
So now that I at least feel like I'm not stumbling around tripping over my own feet in the game. I've decided to make a new character, will probably also up the difficulty from normal to core. And I'll play more akin to my character's alignment. Kind off silly to pick Chaotic Good if you play as if Lawful Good. I have also found another character build that caught my interest, as an alternative to my previous brute force berserker. Which is as follows:
Male Human Berserker/Cleric
Chaotic Good
str 18/00 (if the rng God favors me)
dex 18
con 18
int 10 (could possibly drop this if I don't get high enough rolls)
wis 18
cha 10 (could possibly drop this if I don't get high enough rolls)
Warhammer 2
Sword and Shield Style 2
From what I've heard the earliest you want to dual class this is once you've hit lvl 5 berserker. Although I've seen people advise waiting until you're up too lvl 9. As for which specific cleric kit to dual class too. Not sure. Then again I don't even know if you dual class to a specific cleric kit. Or just generic Cleric. Anyway, from what I understand the pure berserker will be a bigger melee powerhouse, but the addition off cleric spells for the fighter/cleric is nothing to scoff at. Even after the stats hit. Both choices appeal to my playstyle. Buff up, run in, smack in face til dead. So I'll be having a blast either way. Also, keep in mind, I'm not dead set on the stats/race/class. So any advise will be welcome.
My current thinking for my party is as follows:
Tank: Me
Thief/rogue: Imoen until Safana, and Safana until Coran.
Cleric/healer: Branwen at least until Viconia. Not sure which one to keep after.
Mage: Neera or Edwin.
The other 2 slots: To be honest, I'm not sure. I love Minsc, but I have no connection to Dynaheir beyond what I found out in BG2. Same goes for Jaheira and Khalid.
Thing about this playthrough is I'm not going to play a goody two shoes lawful good, so beyond the risk off having npc's leave if I get too high reputation. The npc's alignment isn't much off a concern for me. Although it would be nice to not have my party members try to kill each other. At any rate. There you have it. Like I've mentioned. I am not dead set on any off my current choices. And any advise concerning my main character and what party members to bring along will be greatly appreciated.
0
Comments
first if you want to dual, only humans can, which does sound like what you are doing ( you cant get a kit if you multi) plus you are right in as if you dual class to a second class you cant choose a kit for class number 2, only class number 1, now depending on how much compatibility you want with that beserker class, is when you want to dual, the highest you can reach in the beserker class and get the beserker class active again is level 6, which might be alright, because then when your cleric hits level 8 you can put a 5th proficiency point into a weapon * DO NOTE* that if you dual into a cleric you can ONLY use cleric weapons from then on there, even when you get your fighter levels back, you can still only use cleric weapons, so make sure to think about that ahead of time
second, ability scores, if that is what you want to roll, then by all means use that although a couple of changes might make things a bit better; for str, in theory 18/01 is even good enough because once you get draw upon holy might, you will get 19 str right away, and when you read the str tome, it will go up to 19, 18/00 is just a convenience more than anything, if you still want a power game str then go with 18/91 or higher, 18/91 - 18/99 is only -1 to hit/ damage against 18/00, also you may want to have at least 11 intelligence, not going to say why, but having int at 11 or 16 for a melee character can become very useful in bg 2, but isn't a necessity ( except for maybe 11 intelligence would be a necessity for a melee fighter type) so have 11 int and 9 cha instead of 10 int/10 cha and if you have to, even 8 cha should be enough if you need a little bit more help in having that 18/-- str, 18 dex, 18 con, 11 int, 18 wis, 8-x cha - rolling for that is quite the power build, but that character will kick some unbelievable butt
team members;
tank: A okay, since it will be charname
thief/rogue: safana might be a better choice if you are going to use evil members, but in the end it doesn't really matter, as long as your rep doesn't hit over 18, anyone will stay on your team, plus coran is an amazing thief, he is great with a bow, and eventually he can hit 90 open locks, and 100 find traps, which a thief MUST HAVE if it wants to be usefull on your team
cleric/healer: I think viconia is better, just because of dexterity and with gauntlets of ogre power that low str will no longer matter, plus Vicky gets 50 magic resistance, but branwen has more HP, its completely based on preference, and both work just as fine
Mage: again, preference, both work just fine, neera and Edwin are great mages, although neera can learn every spell in the game with potion of int at the right time, but Edwin had more HP, and neera has better AC, so again its preference, they are both great mages,
random slot #1: dorn might be a great choice, you seem to be a little basher light, and usually having at least 2 bashers is ideal, dorn is better than minsc in everyway, has rewarding side quests for some great items, and he has 19 STRENGTH to boot, at default, he destroys with 2 handed swords, he may be evil, but he is definitely the uber NPC of bgee, shar-teel can also be great she has great dex and 18/58 str, which is very decent, her con is garbage ( being at 9) but that makes it so she can use the claw of kazgaroth with virtually no penalty sort of speak ( the claw also works well with dorn especially the fact of not being able to use a shield when he is 2 handed wielding) so if you plan to pick up shar-teel, I would just dump all her profs into longsword, nevermind her dual wield nonsense, only rangers can do that with great results in bgee, fighters, not so well, if you want to use anjantis again, it is definitely recommended to give him the gauntlets of dexterity, then he can have some great AC, im not much of a fan of anjantis, but if he worked well with you and you like, then there is no shame in using him again, but in short, grab another melee basher for random slot #1
random slot#2: you could literally have anyone fill this slot, you will have 2 melee bashers, a cleric type, a thief type, and a mage type, once you hit level 5 you could get baeloth, he has an outrageous amount of spell casting, he cant get level 5 spells, but boy oh boy, spell levels 1-4, holy poop on a stick is most appropriate here, or you could use a 2nd mage aka; if you choose neera as your mage you could use Edwin in this slot or vise versa, or even for spite you could bring rasaad along in this slot, but the thing about him, he is a bit weak in bgee and is going to require some micro managing, and mostly he is only really useful for being a scout with a sling a ling ding a ling, but his in game quest are incredibly rewarding especially when his quest can provide one of the best items in the game, so all in all, random slot #2, it really doesn't matter who fills it, in fact you can keep it empty every once in a while, find a new npc, bring them along, so how they feel, keep them if you like, or drop them and replace them with somebody else when you see fit
hope that helps
As it sounds like your style revolves around beating things down in melee, I would recommend getting another melee character in at least one of your other slots. Presumably you want to use Coran as an archer so a dedicated long sword user would be great. Shar-teel could fit there.
With all the nice two-handed weapons, a two-handed user like Dorn would work too. And his poison weapon is very useful in BG1 especially if you're playing an unmodded game where mages don't come pre-buffed with protection from normal missiles/stoneskin/mirror image. A single poisoned arrow that hits will put most mages out of commission instantly.
A second mage would be useful as well. I second the suggestion of Baeloth as you don't have to buy any spells for him, so Edwin can scribe all the rare scrolls while Baeloth handles the other stuff.
You could also leave the sixth slot empty to level faster and rotate in the new NPCs in order to do their quests.
Anyway, to stay on topic. Dorn, Baeloth, Edwin and Viconia will leave the party if I hit 19 or 20 reputation if I understand correct. (I seem to remember in BG2 if you had Viconia in party you would always have -2 reputation. So you maxed out at 18 with her in the party. I may be remembering wrong, so some clarification is needed.) And although I won't play a goody two shoes this time around. I'm still concerned I'll end up hitting the "danger zone", so to speak. Since my character won't do things like outright murder without provocation. And other obviously evil deeds. So I might have abit off a problem with that since my character isn't likely to do things that will outright drop his reputation by much. Although I suppose there's always getting caught stealing intentionally then killing the guard that arrives as a last ditch effort.
As for the berserker/cleric, I do plan on using warhammers if I go that route. Might add a point in sling or similar for a some ranged firepower if I can get away with it and still get a maxed out warhammer proficiency. If I recall you can get that +2 warhammer that has some extra lightning damage fairly early. Which is what I'd be using for my main char. And Spiderbane will probably be awesome with Dorn. I heard there's an Uber bow somewhere, but I've never found it. Hence why I got the composite bow +1 my last time around. Another good weapons I have stumbled across so far is Varcona (spelling) and the stupifier. There seem to be a distinct lack off magical bastard swords, ninjato, wakasashi and katana's. Then again I stopped once I got to the Baldur's Gate portion off the game. So I probably haven't seen even close to half off the awesome weapons this game has to offer.
Only free item from friendly arms inn I remember is a ring I think. I do know about the ankheg plate. But that's not at the friendly arms inn area.
At any rate, based on your suggestions I think I'll stick with me, Dorn, Branwen until Viconia, Safana until Coran, Neera, Edwin until Baeloth. And if the reputation issue ends up being too much off an issue unless I "break character" I could always make a more evil aligned character to go with that composition. And look into more neutral/good aligned characters for my Chaotic Good playthrough. The reasoning behind grabbing Branwen first is, as far as I know, she is in a more accessible/lower level area. That, and I don't remember which area I found Viconia in last time. While Branwen is as easy as going straight to the carnival with a stone to flesh scroll. And on the way picking up Neera and Edwin. Safana I also know where is, so I can run like a scared little girl straight to her location, avoiding getting horribly murdered (hopefully) by mobs on the way. Dorn I suppose I have to just wait for until his event happens.
As for more good aligned alternatives. How is Imoen as a Thief/Mage? Or Dynaheir as a mage if I decide to keep her and Minsc instead. Minsc is awesome from what I remember at least. Another suggestion I've heard mentioned as a party"healer" is Faldorn. Tbh, BG1 has an impressive amount off joinable npc's.
Reputation is quite managable with petty theft. You don't even have to steal anything, just look in places you aren't supposed to. In BGEE half the time you get called out for stealing just for examining what's on the shelves of a store, and many homeowners will take issue when you browse their bookshelves in their sight so there's definitely no shortage of opportunities. Fail to pay off the guard or resist arrest (-1 rep), then run for it. No need to kill them, I believe the guards disappear eventually on their own. I like to have Coran do it as he's exactly the type of lovable rogue that's constantly evading angry guards and husbands.
Composite +1 is about as uber as it gets
I didn't mean directly inside the Friendly Arm, but if you travel east from the Inn you'll end up next to Viconia so you can recruit her right from the start of the game. Even before Jaheira and Khalid if you're nervous about entering the inn and certainly a shorter trip than going to Nashkel. Her recruitment nets you a free plate mail too which is the one I was talking about.
Imoen is fantastic, but you do have to put in the work to get her dualed. She has the kind of stats I'd be happy with on charname so it's not a surprise she's a very competent NPC. Minsc is fun to have but pretty average in terms of capabilities. Dynaheir is not as great as Edwin of course but in my book anyone who can cast Haste and use a wand of fire is a good enough mage for me. A wand of sleep (which you should get anyways as it's super useful) will cover her main weakness.
I've actually never used Faldorn but I know she's the only cleric type who can reach 5th circle spells so she has that going for her. I generally don't reach that level in a full party so it's not very tempting for me, but if you're planning on hitting the exp cap I think she could be great.
At any rate, started the playthrough with the human berserker/cleric a couple off hours ago. And so far its going swimmingly. Although I just only got to the friendly arms inn by the time I stopped. I did however grab safana immediately this time around. And as you pointed out. From the friendly arms in, Viconia isn't far off. Now if I could only remember which off those eastern territories were the "basilisk garden" and avoid it til later. :P
Quick side not, having 18 wisdom and 18 constitution. is it useful to still use the books that permanently gives +1 to those stats on my fighter/cleric?
Heh, the first couple of times I wandered into the basilisk garden by accident I thought it was the most ridiculous fight ever. How am I supposed to beat something that kills me instantly? Then I found out there was a spell for that, and that they can't petrify undead.
Definitely worth using the books. As fighter, you get HP bonuses from Con all the way up to 24 and more regen at 25. As a cleric, bonus spells for every point of Wis!
bg1: montaron edwin kagain shar-teel
bg2: korgan shapeshifter edwin jan
If I had a hat, I would tip it at you. Now I'm going to get back to, for the first time, properly play through the game entirely and fill in all the blanks that I had from skipping BG1 for BG2 back in the day. Although I suppose the TotSC areas are best left til late game.
For a different angle you could think about a fighter/mage multiclass. They start out as below-average fighters, but progress into very powerful tanks within a few levels. Fighter/Clerics hit hard, but Fighter/Mages get a huge variety of spells that can make them pretty much invincible. Once you get mirror image, improved invisibility and stoneskin you can stand toe-to-toe with Sarevok without any worries. Just because you have to wear mage robes, it doesn't mean you're squishy.
Now that I think off it, the only time I have played a caster heavy party in any rpg was when I played through Dragon Age Origins as a mage, with Wynne, Morrigan and Shale at my side. And when experimenting with a party I put together from a powerlevel guide for Icewind Dale 2. (Shield Dwarf Fighter(4)/Barbarian(x), Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus(x), Human Paladin (1)/Morninglord of Lathander(x), Drow Rogue(1)/Conjurer(x), Human Sorcerer(x), Aasimar Sorcerer(x).) I've never kicked so much ass in my life.
As for Safana leaving, I haven't seen her doing so. Then again during my test run I found said potion off absortion, and used it to great effect to defeat the golems without dallying too much. So its quite possible I didn't take over 10 days to complete her quest. Now, if I could only remember where I found that potion during my test run.
If you are planning to be the tank, and you'll also be able to cast healing spells, you really have a lot of flexibility, as long as you have a thief. You also noted you enjoyed party banter in BG2. You may want to pick a party based on banters and dialogue. There's not as much as in BG2, but it's there with the right combinations. If you are planning on Viconia, Kivan is a must-have. They have a huge "rivalmance" with a lot of unique dialogue. Kivan is actually very strong in melee due to his str and con, even though most people use him as an archer. If you are planning on Coran, Safana is a must-have. In that case you might focus Safana as primary thief and build Coran more for stealth - his archery was nerfed a bit in BG:EE and people overlook that he can be a NASTY backstabber, especially with one of the zillion potions of str you most likely won't need when you have 19 str post-tome. Another uncommon pick that I have enjoyed in several playthroughs is Quayle. Since you will have cleric levels, why not add a cleric/mage as your second cleric. Quayle gets a bazillion spells per day, he can wear a helmet and equip a shield, making him much less squishy than typical mage, and he's very funny. If you go Quayle and Tiax you get a lot of great back and forth, and you'd get even ANOTHER cleric.
Last thing to note is that Viconia does not cap your reputation at 18, she just gives you a -2 on joining and a +2 on leaving. If you take Viconia and increase your rep past 18, she will complain and eventually leave the party. As others have mentioned, you can RP the chaotic side of good with lots of pickpocketing (only nameless NPCs) or lockpicking in plain sight, but you will have to watch your rep the whole game.
1) Her stats suck. They're really bad. She gets okay wisdom, mediocre dexterity and that's about it. Not the biggest of issues as she should be sat at the back casting anyway though. To overcome the lame stats you could EEKeeper her to the Avenger kit. This would actually suit her from a RP perspective and would also make her a lot better at offensive casting.
2) You can only get her in the 3rd Cloakwood area, which is only a whisker away from Baldur's Gate. You could get her, or wait a few minutes and pick up Yeslick who is a great tank (with the Dex gauntlets) and divine caster.
I prefer Dorn over Kagain too. After all, you don't take any damage if the enemy is dead. And with careful tactics, you can prevent many foes from getting hits on him at all. For example, Web + a certain sword will let him walk up to helpless enemies and slaughter them at his leisure.
There are a couple other cleric options to be found in Baldur's Gate, so close to the same time that you pick up Yeslick.
As for the dark wizards, I can imagine how it is. If you're playing an unmodded game they tend to leave rooms as smoking pits of disaster
And Dorn is running around with... boots was it? that gives bonus to ac vs missile attacks.
I find druid spells to be a nice addition to an already fairly complete party, but in BG they are not as good as a straight cleric at party buffing.