Weapon choice without metagaming

Applesoup

HI guys, I want to ask you something and sorry for my bad English.

I want to play a warrior class without metagaming which means I'll have a lot of option regarding weapon proficiencies. so...

1.) Let's pretend I've never read any BG weapon database at all and my CHARNAME doesn't know anything about any magical weapon that he'll find on his journey, are there any reasons not to choose stronger base weapon over the weaker one (except for roleplaying)? like bastard sword (slashing 2d4) over longsword (slashing 1d8). at least they've warned us about katana (1d10) being rare. CHARNAME is a human btw not elf with bonus to longsword.

2.) Why some of the stronger base weapons are cheaper than the weaker ones? Like morning star (blunt 2d4) cost 15gp and flail (blunt 1d6+1) cost22gp on Winthrop store. Is this just immersion stuff or are there any other factor that will surprise me?

Thank you, your answer will be appreciated

nano

1) Because bastard swords lack style. Let's be honest, elves wouldn't use longswords even if they were 1d100 if they weren't stylish, so if you want to look good, use what they use. Also, given Charname's background, "bastard" might be a sensitive issue.

2) Manufacturing costs, I guess? Or supply and demand? Maybe smiths generally make morning stars because they're more popular so if you want a flail you need to find a special supplier.

From a gameplay perspective long swords have a lower speed factor which can help if you hit and run. I'm not aware of any gameplay reason to pick an ordinary flail over a morning star.

Applesoup

Well I guess as a charismatic Charname, elegant and stylish swordplay are mandatory but I hope as a heavy armored warrior, i don't need to hit & run. Thank you so much for the information.

sarevok57

I think the difference in cost could also be speed factor for the weapon ( although they both might be the same) or else I could just come down to what is more popular, also in bgee there is at least a magical weapon for every category and in SoA there is a +3 weapon for each category and in ToB there is at least a +5 version of each, so there really is no worries on what you choose, although in bgee some weapons hit +2 while others don't, but you should still be fine

Awong124

Bastard sword speed factor isn't as good as long sword, and it weighs more if your strength isn't very high and you have to manage carrying weight.

Applesoup

Yeah I was hoping it would be as easy as Neverwinter Nights original campaign, where there is a simple crafting mechanic which helps you to make your weapon of choice powerful no matter what kind. I was worried because there is a rumor flying around that there is a certain longsword and a dagger that so powerful in BG 1. And I was afraid that they didn't give enough love to the other weapon type.

I guess in Faerun, longswords are so common and easy to find, perfect for my roleplaying excuse.

nano

Yeah, from a roleplaying perspective longswords are a natural choice. All the guards in Candlekeep use them so if you wanted to learn how to fight they'd probably train you in that. Makes much more sense than somehow knowing how to use katanas even though the only one in Candlekeep is super expensive and jealously guarded by Winthrop. Maybe you snuck into his stockroom at night and practiced with it?

Applesoup

Katana is a no no at least the non-magical one. If my cheap longsword can be shattered to pieces, I can't imagine what will happen to the 600++gp katana.

Anyway is speed factor really a big deal, i mean is the hit & run tactic a frequently used tactic? As of right now, I'm always using the ummm... bait & snipe tactic, you know the one where one party member have a little game of tag with an enemy while the other launching arrows of death.

nano

I think katanas can't be shattered because they come from foreign parts and aren't affected by the Iron Crisis? I dunno, I thought I read that somewhere but I've never tested it so I could be making that up. Maybe it was in a mod.

No, speed factor is not a big deal, but it's the only real advantage of a plain longsword so that's why we're focusing on it If you have a high speed factor you could stand next to mages and stab them after they start casting to interrupt their spell, but you might as well just kill them at that point.

Hit and run is hard to do in practice unless there's a huge difference in speed factor or you're a Kensai, and you probably need to run faster than they can as well. In any case, your opponent will likely be using a long sword too so you can't hit and run against that, and the AI is not smart enough to do it against you even if you're using a bastard sword. Could be useful if you're a monk because they need all the help they can get.

The bait and snipe tactic is what I use too. Poor Xzar, he always gets nominated for that job because he can't hit a thing with missile weapons. Rasaad is great too because he runs fast, and no one really minds if he dies

Applesoup

Poor Xzar

Okay guys Thank you all for the answer, the discussion really boosted my confidence to play

ZanathKariashi

Speed factor can be important. If you have a faster weapon then the enemy, you can poke them and move out of range before they retaliate, effectively de-fanging some otherwise dangerous melee enemies, such as ogres (takes some practice though).

Staves are the best at it, due to their reach giving you more room for error and base speed of 3, though enhancement bonuses makes weapons faster, and things like High mastery (****) and 2hded weapon style can also speed weapons up even more. And the Kensai gets a speed bonus every 3 levels as well. So most weapons can eventually hit 0 speed regardless.

faster speeds are also nice for backstabbing to make it less likely for the target to move before you strike.

So yes, it's not a huge deal, but it can give you an edge in a close fight.

1. Longswords are THE most common weapon type in the saga. Bar none. Bastard swords tend to be much rarer...not quite katana level rare, but they're up there. If you want to be able to benefit from a wide variety of effects, then you cannot go wrong with long-swords. (there's even a cheap, moderately powerful longsword in the sequel that deals bastard sword damage, but is in all other respects a longsword).

2. Flails are more complicated to make, simple as that. It takes a lot more work to make a chain then to make a metal shaft, between 2 otherwise identical weapons.

Flails deal less damage due to the mechanics of it. While they can build up a lot of force, armor can deflect or absorb most of it, where as a morningstar is a heavy mace with spikes on it and can apply a lot of sustained force to the blow.

Time4Tiddy

As a fighter, you will have a lot of prof points by the end of the game(s). If you truly didn't want to meta-game, you'd probably start out with Quarterstaff - that's what all the Watchers have equipped (and your in-game bio says you were trained by a Watcher). Also rumors of iron breaking might tend towards you wanting a weapon that won't. You can find some ridiculously powerful staves in both games, although the best ones in BG1 come quite late.

Because you pick up a lot of prof points as you level, you could pretty easily change from staff to something else as you went, based on weapons that you find as you adventure. You are unlikely to get 5 stars in a single weapon if you switch midway, but 5 star prof really requires meta-gaming.

Having said all that, I tend to like my fighters to use Axes because you can throw, melee, and still go either 2-weapon or sword/shield while still putting all prof points into one weapon and one weapon-style.

Corvino

I guess you could choose weapons based on your character's race. Elves and half-elves are more likely to go for elegant weapons like longbows, longswords and scimitars, gnomes for crossbows, daggers and shortswords, halflings for slings and shortswords, Dwarves for hammers and axes and so on. Unleash your inner cliches.

Playing as a straight fighter, it's usually worth concentrating at least 3 proficiency points into a weapon to get the very solid increase of +3 THAC0 from mastery over +1 from specialised. For a Ranger or Paladin you get enough points to spread around and can specialise in 3 weapons or styles by the end of BG:EE.

Just about all weapon choices are entirely viable in BG:EE, so just go with what you feel like.

zur312

"Weapon choice without metagaming"
bg iwdfication
item randomization

gg

Applesoup

Thanks again guys for the suggestions.

I just found out some facts about default setup for pre-gen Warrior in Forgotten Realms games. It looks like pre-gen fighters in BG (Abdel) and NWN have proficiency in Longsword and shield while the Paladins tend to use Two-handed swords/Greatswords (but strangely Meryll has 1 pip on single-style weapon and two pips on Two handed sword). Rangers obviously dual-wielding warrior. I guess in doubt you just have to stick with the D&D stereotypes.

ZanathKariashi

Paladin using 2hder is more of a BG thing....most holy swords are longswords or bastard swords.

Bastard Sword: (Purifier, Hallowed Redeemer) (Not to be confused with Keldorn's Hallowed Redeemer, which isn't a holy sword, it's just named after one)

Longsword: (Invigorator, Divine Protector)


Avenger types are the only one based on 2hders.

atcDave

Yeah Zanath I can't tell you how disappointed I was when the best Paladin weapon turned out to be a two-hander!
Going way back to the early 80s the best published Holy Sword I remember was "Chrysomer" from an old Frank Mentzer module ("Egg of the Phoenix" or "Doc's Island", I don't recall which) which I'm pretty sure was a long sword. At least the version of it I'm looking at on an old character sheet of mine was. (remote possibility the DM changed it in advance because my long sword wielding paladin was the only paly in his game)

Durenas

Applesoup said:

Katana is a no no at least the non-magical one. If my cheap longsword can be shattered to pieces, I can't imagine what will happen to the 600++gp katana.

Anyway is speed factor really a big deal, i mean is the hit & run tactic a frequently used tactic? As of right now, I'm always using the ummm... bait & snipe tactic, you know the one where one party member have a little game of tag with an enemy while the other launching arrows of death.

Katanas aren't made locally, AFAIK, and don't suffer the iron rot that is going on in the Sword Coast at the moment. At least, I've never seen a Katana break.

Corvino

Katanas, Ninja-to and Wakizashis all do not break, but scimitars do.

etagloc

remember your backstory.
you grew up in Candlekeep, it is likely you would only have trained with the most simple weapons, like a Long/shortsword or a simple mace or club.
But you can always make up something.... like Candlekeep was visited by a stranger from the east and you feel in love with his amazingly cool katana.