Clarification on spell level limits
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Member Posts: 27
I've always wondered if there are exceptions to the level 20 spell level cap (or level 9 for Paladins/Rangers).
The main spell that comes to mind is dispel magic/remove magic. If for instance, the caster is level 25, the target is level 22, does the caster get a 65% (50% + 5% x 3levels) chance of success, or a 30% (50% - 10% x2 levels) chance of success due to the spell level capping at 20?
Same thing with turn undead. I have no idea if turn undead acts as a spell, or ability, or if there is even a difference. Does it cap at level 20, or do you continue to gain benefit up to level 40?
The main spell that comes to mind is dispel magic/remove magic. If for instance, the caster is level 25, the target is level 22, does the caster get a 65% (50% + 5% x 3levels) chance of success, or a 30% (50% - 10% x2 levels) chance of success due to the spell level capping at 20?
Same thing with turn undead. I have no idea if turn undead acts as a spell, or ability, or if there is even a difference. Does it cap at level 20, or do you continue to gain benefit up to level 40?
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The max caster lvl of 9 for rangers/paladin isn't enforced and they cast at class lvl instead of 7 or 8 less, respectively.
Turn Undead is based purely on Class level vs target HD. Except for paladin who have a -2 level penalty.
Dispel is the same if memory serves, since it isn't a normal caster level check, it checks the difference in Level between the caster and the target to modify the base 50% success rate.
I don't think that Turn Undead caps at level 14 though @magpie. People definitely claim to have turned Kangaxx the demi-lich, though you need to be very high level to manage it. This thread contains a table with the supposed levels:
http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15859&highlight=turn+undead
Then again, at 14+ a PnP cleric can turn a Lich about 40% of the time, and Gods and Demons 5 and 15% of the time.
The high level rules keep expanding the turning though.
@ZanathKariashi Not sure about all spells, but I ran a test with a level 16 Paladin, ToB, patches applied, no mods, newly created.
Armor of Faith provided 10% resistance, which I assume is the level 1 and 5 increments. If not capped, I would think it should be 20% at level 16.
Draw upon Holy Might provided 2 bonus to str/con/dex. I was thinking it would be 3, but maybe it caps at level 8. Regardless, if not capped, I would think it should have provided +5.
If they are only caster level 7 at experience level 16 then they've lost a caster level somewhere.
In any case, it still explains the results of testing demonstrated.
So fireball reads something like
level 8: 8d6
level 9: 9d6
level 10+: 10d6
If you're level 20, you actually are casting a level 20 fireball; it just does the same amount of damage as a level 10 one. I believe dispel magic works the same way, except it does give benefits for being 20 or above (certainly some effects dispel with a caster level of 30 or so) so every caster has access to this, not just paladins.
The dispel effect of Dispel and Remove Magic Wizard spells are also set to spell power 0, which means they can bypass Liches spell protections. They use the caster level to determine the chance of dispelling, whereas Inquisitors use the spell level (which equals two times their class level, starting at 12).
Unfortunately Liches are so high level that you usually don't see any difference.
But @LordRumfish is right when he says Bards and Clerics also make excellent dispellers.
Rangers and Paladins not so much, as they cast respectively at -7 and -8.
Also, @nano is right about the casting level. It actually equals the class level except for Rangers and Paladins as mentioned before. Most spells indeed do not have additional effects past level 20. As a result, if you're level 21 you will obtain level 20 effects but still casting at level 21.
As I said, the spell versions of dispel use the caster level (if you look at the spell file you will see there's only one block of effects not several for each level), which means it can theoretically go as high as 40 for Bards and Priests.
On the same matter, Inquisitors are limited to a level 40 dispel but they get it at level 20
Some spells clarify that they stop before 20 like Fireball and Lightning Bolt.
Bards get an awesome casting level since they are rouges and they can cast up to lvl6.
I don't understand what you're saying about Paladin and Ranger. They cast the exact same spells than Cleric and Druids except they do at caster level = class level -8 and -7. So, for example to get the same effect as a level 20 Cleric for Armor of Faith, a Paladin must be level 28.
That's all.