[Spoiler] How did I never see this?!

Jazara

I'm doing yet another run through of BG:EE and I'm in Cloakwood with the spiders. When I got to Centeol (the fat spider lord guy) I normally reply with the generic 'bring it on!' dialogue but this time I asked him why he was there and answered that Jon Irenicus banished him for atrocities he committed and what not.

This might seem silly to most people, but I've never read this and I was floored! I can't recall any foreshadowing about Irenicus and this little tidbit got me all excited. I just had to share haha

stygga

Pretty sure he says Jon Icarus not Irenicus but it's assumed it's Irenicus.

Shin

It's old but good. In the original BG1 she would call him by a slightly different name, but it appears that was altered/corrected in the EE.

elminster

stygga said:

Pretty sure he says Jon Icarus not Irenicus but it's assumed it's Irenicus.

BGEE actually fixed that to be Irenicus.

Corvino

Indeed. In vanilla she says she was cursed by the Archmage Jon Icarus, who loved another. BG:EE altered the name slightly, but kept the rest of the text identical.

the_spyder

I had thought you had to charm her in order to get that discussion thread? Goes to show how out of the loop I am. But yeah, I had heard something about that as well.

CoryNewb

I just noticed it for the first time a couple weeks ago. She didn't give much detail, would have been cool to get some more backstory on old Jonny boy.

KRK

You can charm her for further information, i think.

Dino

Clearly, it suits Irenicus style perfectly, sentencing C to a life of solitude and despair.

ZanathKariashi

Yeah, charming just allows you to ask further about it....she was jealous over Irenicus hooking up with a Lady Tanova in Baldur's Gate, and stabbed her. And then Irenicus turned her into that as punishment. She was apparently very pretty at one time, and had been in a relationship with him, but he tossed her aside and moved on to another woman.

Of note, there is a powerful female vampire mage named Tanova in Bodhi's lair in BG2.

the_spyder

It's these small touches that really enhance the game on so many levels.

Corvino

There are recurring names throughout BG1 and BG2, often with the named vampires in BG2 being the same as random NPCs in BG1. Sendai is both a powerful Drow in TOB and an arrogant Amnish Noble in BG1.

Jazara

the_spyder said:

It's these small touches that really enhance the game on so many levels.

Indeed. Even after all these years of playing, I still stumble across little gems of information that make me fall in love with this series all over again.

Jazara

Corvino said:

There are recurring names throughout BG1 and BG2, often with the named vampires in BG2 being the same as random NPCs in BG1. Sendai is both a powerful Drow in TOB and an arrogant Amnish Noble in BG1.

This reminds me... One of Dorn's former party members is named Dorotea, does anyone know if she was named for one of the prominent modders with the same name? Or is it merely coincidence?

ZanathKariashi

One thing that bugs me about Bodhi though.........Elf vampires can walk during daylight (Up to 1 hour in direct sunlight without issue, requiring an equal amount of time in the shade to recover before doing it again), but are burned by the touch of moonlight as a human vampire is by sunlight.


I mean it might be due to the loss of her soul, but it still seems a bit strange, none the less.

On the other hand, vampires are described as soulless, hence why they hunger for the lifeforce of other beings, and several of their stranger properties such as no reflections, no shadows, etc. So...Bodhi's lack of a soul wouldn't actually be an issue.

recklessheart

@ZanathKariashi , I think this is a really interesting point that you have raised about Vampires, however I do not think Bohdi was ever in need of a soul, or at risk of expiring; rather she desired something greater than Vampirism in power, and wanted to reclaim the feeling of life that was deprived from her after Suldanesselar and her turn to Vampirism. By the time she turned to Vampirism, she was distinctly not-elven in the same way that Irenicus is not classified as an elf (I think?).

Eudaemonium

I didn't actually know that about Elven Vampires, but my presumption would be similar to recklessheart, in that by the time she turned to Vampirism her elven-ness had already been stripped from her and thus she wasn't subject to the same rules.

Or it could be a plot hole.

Cowled_wizard

Did anybody charm tanova? Did she say anything about being with irenicus?

Jalily

Cowled_wizard said:

Did anybody charm tanova? Did she say anything about being with irenicus?

She has no charm dialogue and doesn't say anything about Irenicus.

DrHappyAngry

Did any of you notice Dorn's last name? Lots of possibilities for interactions with the Orcish Bhaalspawn Gromnir Il-Khan in TOB. Could be half brothers, or perhaps Dorn's Bhaalspawn, too.

Awong124

I always ask her why she's so fat.

Alexisisinneed

I also like to ask her why she's so fat. Then I cast a fireball just so she can melt away.

BladeDancer

DrHappyAngry said:

Did any of you notice Dorn's last name? Lots of possibilities for interactions with the Orcish Bhaalspawn Gromnir Il-Khan in TOB. Could be half brothers, or perhaps Dorn's Bhaalspawn, too.

Believe me, as far as BGEE reveals, it is unlikely that Dorn is a spawn of Bhaal, but I do believe that he might be related to Gromnir in some way.

Corvino

Well, we don't know exactly what deal Dorn made with his patron. It's not inconceivable that a godling in need is tempting to a powerful outsider.

Dorn is a Half-Orc, Gromnir is an Orc. Half brothers?

Eudaemonium

I thought Gromnir was a half-Orc, maybe I was wrong (I played ToB like a decade ago).

Anyway, they are probably from the same clan, the one that got destroyed when Dorn fled with his mother. I will expect some dialogue.

Heck, maybe Gromnir was his dad :P

Delvarian

In the NPC project you get another option with C if you have Xan in your party.

BelgarathMTH

@Delvarian, is it NPC Project and Xan that triggers that? I know I've always gotten Centeol's full backstory without using any charm spell. I thought it was the NPC Project, after I found out from people here that she doesn't offer the story without one.

I can't remember if I had Xan or not, but she never mentioned him by name. She would just always bring up a dialogue where she would ask to talk, and I could choose "die now, monster" or "okay, say what you will." And she'd tell the whole story with the love triangle, Irenicus, and the spider curse.

ZanathKariashi

Il-khan would be an orc tribe name, they would simply be descended from the same orc tribe, it doesn't necessarily imply direct relation.

Delvarian

@belgarathmth Xan explains to Charname a bit about the spell Centeol is under (in NPC project) as well as making an offer. I believe the backstory for Centeol comes up in vanilla, but with Jon Icarus instead of Iranicus as the name she gives.

BelgarathMTH

@Delvarian, thanks. Although, I believe @Elminster just said that BG:EE changes the "Icarus" to "Irenicus", as an Easter egg for BG:EE players. And also, yes, I also thought you could get Centeol's backstory just fine in vanilla, with no charm spell needed, and what @Jalily said would seem to support that.

I'm wondering if the people who think you need Charm Person to get Centeol's backstory are just kind of "kill first, ask questions later" types, who never got the backstory without the Charm Person spell because they never bother to choose "Mercy, please wait!" type responses?

DrHappyAngry

ZanathKariashi said:

Il-khan would be an orc tribe name, they would simply be descended from the same orc tribe, it doesn't necessarily imply direct relation.

Maybe, I don't recall it being called out it was a clan name, been a little while since I listened that closely to their stories. I expect there'll at least be some sort of relationship to touch on, there though. Still enough to make me want to take Dorn with me for my first BG2:EE playthrough to see how it plays out. Would be pretty interesting if Dorn turned out to be another Bhaalspawn, and you had to either kill him or make him submit to your will somehow. Obviously I'm just speculating, but it's an interesting idea, and I suspect they'll at least do something with them, even if it turns out they're just from the same clan and not that closely related.