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Assembling the "C" Team

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Comments

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199

    and Garrick, well, who else will you give the Crossbow of Speed to?

    Dorn. Crossbow of Speed plus Poison Weapon. XD The Army Scythe, indeed!

    jackjackJuliusBorisovKidCarnival
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Eh, unless you waited too long to recruit him Dorn is better suited for long bows.

    Eudaemonium
  • jhneohjhneoh Member Posts: 42
    edited October 2013
    What's with all the players saying Faldorn is weak? She's the only divine caster that can hit level 10. At that level she has 4 casts of Call Woodland Beings (Mass Cure at level 4!) and 2 casts of Insect Plague/Iron Skins.

    Faldorn is probably the best pure-class cleric.

    Time4Tiddy
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    elminster said:

    shawne said:


    Khalid: Constant morale failures.

    I barely ever have his morale failures, and he is often competing with me to have the most kills. he can be a good frontliner with high ac so he doesn't take damage and run as well as a good archer. I wouldn't include him in such a list. I don't think he ran a single time in my last playthrough and he was frontlining

    His chance at morale failures is no different than Kagain's. At least Khalid has the decency to run. Kagain goes berserk hehe.
    Huh, I could have sworn that I read somewhere that Khalid had a uniquely bad morale threshold. I also thought I remembered reading that all other NPCs besides Khalid had the same moral threshold. But after reading your comment, I took a look with NI and they're all over the place. As you mentioned, Khalid and Kagain had the same (6, with higher numbers meaning easier for morale to fail). Among the handful of other NPCs I looked at, there were a couple others with 6, one with 5, and a couple with 4 and a couple with 2. Does anyone know if this was changed for EE?

    Also, all the new EE NPCs have a morals break of 0 (does this mean they can't have morale failure?). I'm kind of thinking this is an oversight/bug.

    Oops I guess this is getting pretty off-topic.

    JLeeEudaemoniumKidCarnival
  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 931
    edited October 2013
    It's difficult to point definitively at an NPC and say "You are useless" because most of them have some use. However, here are my thoughts.

    Garrick - If you play on core rules, he almost never learns the spell. His stats are very so-so and it takes longer than you think to get his lore skill to the point of constant usefulness. However, if you can spare the weapons and the proficiencies he's not bad once you give him, say, Deadshot +2 or the Chesley Crusher (halberd). If no one else can use it, he's got just enough strength to wield Spider Bane +2. That's not to say he's good either.

    Eldoth - Same Intelligence woes for spellcasting. Eldoth is stronger and healthier than Garrick but his Dex is bad, are you really going to spare the Dex bracers for him? Coming later in the game, he is less customizable for proficiencies.

    Skie - Speaking of which, if I had to pick a bad thief, it'd be Skie. It's not because she's incompetent, but rather because she's got several levels of picking her own skills out that you have to fix yourself.

    Tiax - Nearly useless as a thief (he's OK at stealth/backstabbing with the right weapon setup and some equipment), Tiax is more useful as a bad cleric. I did manage to turn him into my party's rearguard tank by equipping him with ankheg plate and kiel's buckler (also improved his thief skills), so his AC can become OK and his HP aren't abysmal. Still... pretty middling.

    To fill out the "C" Team, I'm going to have to fill in the last two with members I think are actually useful but not in this particular group.

    Rasaad - As everyone has noted, monks are bad at low levels in D&D and Beamdog elected not to give Rasaad any chart-topping stats. At level 4 when you give him a ranged weapon proficiency he becomes tolerable, and I also send him in after the tank when fighting skeletons. Around level 6 Rasaad starts to become an acceptable choice for melee damage (still not tanking really, but damage dealing). By level 8 Rasaad starts to come into his own: his AC is actually decent, his class abilities are really starting to pay off. He picks up Lay on Hands (self only) at level 7 so he can help you stretch your resources a little. Still... Rasaad is not what I would call "optimal."

    Lastly, pick one of Jaheira/Branwen/Faldorn - These characters are not bad. They serve their roles in the party and I am not naysaying their potential. No, what you're doing here is shooting yourself in the foot by making a group that simply has no heavy hitters or reliable tanks. Jaheira has HP but not Dex, Branwen has a middling mix OK for tanking but not great, Faldorn is not physically impressive on any front but she notably hits 5th level druid spells.

    CHARNAME - You know the drill, pick something difficult. Monk, perhaps. Wizard Slayer. Straight Bard, or perhaps Skald. I don't know if Assassin or Shadowdancer is bad enough to qualify.


    You can absolutely use these characters effectively and win the game with this run, but you will find the lack of a frontline fighter difficult (unless you're a wizard slayer, in which case you'll find other things difficult). You'll have Branwen/Jaheira tanking your battles, with Tiax as offtank (later Rasaad). You'll have arcane support from Garrick and Eldoth, when they're able to learn a spell that is. You'll have pickpocket covered by the bards and somewhere between Skie and Tiax you'll manage the other thief skills. The team sort-of has what you need, just at very subpar levels. You'll need to be very creative with your spell use and it might be best to employ guerrilla tactics with Skie and Tiax for backstabs on some fights. You may find there are points in the game you have to skip or are unable to complete, depending on your skill and how high you set the difficulty.

    EDIT: Whoops, I got overzealous. Drop Jaheira/Branwen/Faldorn, she is too useful. Looks like late-game tanking will be covered by Tiax, and you just might put Eldoth in the Dex bracers after all for an off-tank.

    Also Wik: This is a very minor point, but this group will also have trouble carrying loot. Rasaad, Eldoth and CHARNAME are your main contenders for carrying bodies, ankheg shells, magic armor, etc. Theoretically you could use some spell buffing to get the Strength required for certain tasks as a work-around.

    Also also Wik: A less minor point here is that assembling this team is downright backbreaking. You have to venture over to Beregost and kill Silkie by your lonesome (maybe a wizard slayer could actually do this effectively) to grab Garrick as your prize, fight your way down to Nashkel with him to get Rasaad, and then the three of you have to sally forth through the Nashkel Mines, various assassins, Tranzig, and the bandit camp before you can think about adding Eldoth. The four of you have to find a way to beat the Cloakwood Mines before you can then add Tiax and Skie.

    Post edited by LordRumfish on
    CorvinoEudaemonium
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    I'd be happy (unhappy?) with @LordRumfish's suggestions. All of them are kind of middling enough that combining them together leaves you with a very challenging party even if you powergame. Success with the above party will probably need a lot of Wand and Scroll abuse.

    If you do go with this lot then consider a putting pretty tough CHARNAME in charge to actually get things done.

    jackjackLordRumfish
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Corvino said:

    If you do go with this lot then consider a putting pretty tough CHARNAME in charge to actually get things done.

    Soooooo.... Halfling Wizard Slayer?

    LordRumfish
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Make charname a bard as well and start a band!

    Skie, Safana and Imoen as groupies!

    Actually this sounds like a fun party. 3 bards, 3 thieves, taking over Faerun with the power of rock.

    onanmeaglothjackjackthespace
  • onanonan Member Posts: 223
    nano said:

    Make charname a bard as well and start a band!

    Skie, Safana and Imoen as groupies!

    Actually this sounds like a fun party. 3 bards, 3 thieves, taking over Faerun with the power of rock.

    Concert tonight at the Ducal Palace by CHARNAME and the Harpies. All proceeds go to the Former Slaves of the Cloakwood Mines.

    thespaceAlderic
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,247
    I thought they all died in some flood.

    onanKidCarnivallolien
  • onanonan Member Posts: 223
    jackjack said:

    I thought they all died in some flood.

    Right. All proceeds go to Families of the Former Slaves of Cloakwood Mines.

    jackjack
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,748
    edited October 2013
    TJ_Hooker said:

    elminster said:

    shawne said:


    Khalid: Constant morale failures.

    I barely ever have his morale failures, and he is often competing with me to have the most kills. he can be a good frontliner with high ac so he doesn't take damage and run as well as a good archer. I wouldn't include him in such a list. I don't think he ran a single time in my last playthrough and he was frontlining

    His chance at morale failures is no different than Kagain's. At least Khalid has the decency to run. Kagain goes berserk hehe.
    Huh, I could have sworn that I read somewhere that Khalid had a uniquely bad morale threshold. I also thought I remembered reading that all other NPCs besides Khalid had the same moral threshold. But after reading your comment, I took a look with NI and they're all over the place. As you mentioned, Khalid and Kagain had the same (6, with higher numbers meaning easier for morale to fail). Among the handful of other NPCs I looked at, there were a couple others with 6, one with 5, and a couple with 4 and a couple with 2. Does anyone know if this was changed for EE?

    Also, all the new EE NPCs have a morals break of 0 (does this mean they can't have morale failure?). I'm kind of thinking this is an oversight/bug.

    Oops I guess this is getting pretty off-topic.
    Those kind of stats never make it into the NPC guides. Eldoth for instance has the same morale failure chance as Garrick, Kagain, and Khalid, but most people probably think of Garrick and Khalid as being the cowards.
    So I doubt they were changed in BGEE they are just under-reported.

    As far as I know with the new NPC's their having 0 is deliberate.

    TJ_Hookerlolien
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 203
    nano said:

    Make charname a bard as well and start a band!

    Skie, Safana and Imoen as groupies!

    Actually this sounds like a fun party. 3 bards, 3 thieves, taking over Faerun with the power of rock.

    I´ve done it once. Bard (but blade), Garrick, Eldoth, Skie, Imoen. The sixth member was Quayle (I´dont remeber why, probably I wanted a cleric). The game was surprisingly not difficult, probably because I had blade as a tank. I even beat SCS Sarevok without much trouble.

  • ZarakinthishZarakinthish Member Posts: 214
    edited October 2013

    When choosing your team, it's important to have the theme to the A Team playing in your head.

    @triclops41
    No, I'd say you need to have the theme for "The B-Team" in your head, and then imagine the music being even worse.

    LordRumfish
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    @velehal
    I guess Quayle can do the special effects, being an illusionist. Also patches up band members if performances get out of hand and cures hangovers.

    You could hack in some kits to differentiate your band members a little. Maybe avoid the Blade if you're looking for a challenge but thematically I love the concept.

    The Blade's offensive spin allows him to shred twice as fast as any other musician! (and if things go poorly, his defensive spin deflects rotten tomatoes)
    The Jester's wild melodies make the audience go crazy!
    The Skald's epic lyrics are an inspiration to everyone!

  • NarcissistNarcissist Member Posts: 65
    edited October 2013
    Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions! I think it's been really interesting to hear what each of you has to say on the subject. I think I've got a good enough idea to start this run now. I anticipate a lot of dying though. Still, keep em coming. I get the feeling more than a few of my C team is going to end up as chunky salsa.

    jackjackEudaemoniumKidCarnival
  • Time4TiddyTime4Tiddy Member Posts: 262
    Please tell us who you ended up choosing for your party.

  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 931
    @Narcissist Insane difficulty? Really? This team would be gasping and dying at core rules!

    jackjack
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