What under-represented classes, races, genders and alignments are left in BG2:EE?

Corvino

The new Overhaul NPCs to be added to BG2:EE are currently as follows:

Rasaad (Male LG Human Sun Soul Monk)
Neera (Female CN Half-Elf Wild Mage)
Dorn (Male NE Half-Orc Blackguard)
Hexxat (Female ?Alignment ?Race some sort of Thief)

Given that these guys are joining the rota which classes, races, genders and alignments do you feel will still be under-represented? Which unlikely combination would round out your perfect party?

Do you dream of Dwarven damsels, think a Fighter/Mage is essential or just want more evil minions to round out your motley crew?

KidCarnival

Well, barbarian still isn't represented at all. There is only one half orc, BG2 has no male halfling, neither game has a female dwarf or gnome... More evil shorties would be nice in BG2. All things considered, my party would be perfect with... Montaron in BG2.

JLee

BG2EE addressed a couple of my issues:
Pure class Thief (I think we know this??)
Non-divine caster romance option
Pure class, non-evil mage

I'd like to see a romanceable dwarven Barbarian NPC.

Lord_Tansheron

Female dwarves seem to be generally underrepresented in many RPGs (that feature dwarves in the first place). Not really sure why, I always found them quite... attractive.

XerxesV

More bards. They're the most dramatic class, they'd be fun to keep around. I actually (shamefully) liked Garrick, but he's not available in BG2. I never liked herdailus though. We need a classic over-the-top bard to keep things lively.

And why can't some races be bards? I'd love to have a gnome bard without shadow keeping.

Time4Tiddy

XerxesV said:

I actually (shamefully) liked Garrick, but he's not available in BG2.

I always play through with Garrick, if I'm not a bard myself. I think he is under-appreciated. Definitely need at least one more bard in BG2 - a jester would be great, and a class/kit that almost no one plays as their main would be fun to swap in and out of party to try out.

Eudaemonium

Clearly they need to bring back the glory that was Eldoth Kron, so he can associate with your fine group of gentlemen.

EntropyXII

I don't know about you guys but I was gutted when the Copper Coronet slave guy didn't join my party. I think he was a Barbarian and would have solved the 'lack of barbarians' problem. I always found it strange that Sorcerer and Barbarian were added to the original BG2 but were not implemented in regards to joinable NPC's.

recklessheart

A Dragon Disciple in the tutelage/enslavement (alignment dependant) of Firkraag would be entirely fine with me, I daresay!

Generally speaking, I would quite like more male NPCs. Of the original NPCs, 3 of the female NPCs were romances and so they were much more prominent than any of the male NPCs. Then factor in that the only romanceable male NPC had as much likeability as a decaying gibberling carcass, you are sort of left feeling hungry for some well-developed male NPCs to match the excellently written females ones (with the exception of Aerie, and the inclusion of Mazzy, Imoen and Nalia). Personally, I loved Haer'Dalis and especially Valygar, yet they got royally screwed for dialogue (again, ESPECIALLY Valygar. Moreso than any other NPC, I think, except maybe the eternally underrated Nalia). So... Yeah.. More male NPCs.

Gender rant aside, it would be nice to see a good-aligned bard, a lawful good or lawful neutral Dwarf fighter and/or cleric - for who does not love the wise, dutiful Dwarf archetype? - a Dragon Disciple to add a Sorcerer to the mix, yet subdue all those people complaining about their inferiority to the standard Sorcerer by using all that RP potential that comes with the kit. Aaaaand.. Hm.. What else? Another thief, maybe? Hexxat included, we're still a little sparse on thieves. So perhaps that is a chance to introduce an intriguing male human or half-elf, if such a thing is in demand.

mylegbig

I agree with everyone about having a bard. Jesters and Skalds aren't really attractive as PCs due to their passive/support style of play, but they'd make interesting NPCs.

Kamigoroshi

I always felt that aarakocras, centaurs, driders, and manscorpions are vastly under-represented in BG2:EE. :x

Corvino

I'd quite like to see a melee arcane caster as currently only Haer'Dalis comes close. There are plenty of divine/melee hybrids but minimal arcane/melee participants.

@KidCarnival's Female Dwarf Barbarian in the New NPCs thread a while back was also a great idea and manages to cover a number of bases in terms of gaps (neutral pure fighters/female dwarves/barbarians generally).

Drugar

Corvino said:

Do you dream of Dwarven damsels

Every night.

I originally petitioned for a female dwarf rogue, but with Hexxat now, female dwarf anything is good enough for me.
I pitched my personal idea, a Dwarven Defender, in the aforementioned NPC thread.

velehal

I would say a bard. Yes there is Haer´dalis but due to his kit he is more fighter/mage than bard. I would like to see a "real" bard (without kit or jester/skald).

CoM_Solaufein

Lawful neutral female gnome monk.

Nonnahswriter

Lord_Tansheron said:

Female dwarves seem to be generally underrepresented in many RPGs (that feature dwarves in the first place).

This. I also second the female dwarf barbarian idea.

EntropyXII

@Nonnahswriter - Are they under-represented? I just figured it was hard to tell considering pre-dragon age they all had beards.

Time4Tiddy

EntropyXII said:

@Nonnahswriter - Are they under-represented? I just figured it was hard to tell considering pre-dragon age they all had beards.

True that, didn't Landrin in vanilla BG have a beard?

Nonnahswriter

Time4Tiddy said:

EntropyXII said:

@Nonnahswriter - Are they under-represented? I just figured it was hard to tell considering pre-dragon age they all had beards.

True that, didn't Landrin in vanilla BG have a beard?

Keeping in mind that dwarf characters are generally kinda rare in this setting, I can think of two off the top of my head who are female. Landrin is one (who, according to the wiki, may actually be a gnome), and there's another in one of the fields around Nashkel who gives you the ogre-killing quest. Neither is particularly important or memorable.

As far as joinable NPCs go, we've had three kinds of dwarfs. We've had the honorable survivor of his clan, Yeslick, the gold-digging belching Kagain, and the rude booty-grabbing Korgan. Like I said, dwarves are a minority over both games, but we've already had three men; why not add a lady-dwarf into the mix?

KidCarnival

Besides the true neutral female dwarf barbarian I wrote in the NPC Ideas topic, I would really love to see a dwarven skald. It's such a paradox; dwarves get all the norse mythology, but can't use the norse inspired kit. Skald isn't a very attractive kit for charname; it's very passive to play, but still an asset to a party and therefore an ideal choice for an NPC. I'd say a female dwarven skald of good or neutral alignment would cover many bases here - female dwarf, shorty, (kitted) bard (and speaking of "no female dwarf yet", there are also 3 male bards and no female - another underrepresented group added). I personally would see her as neutral good, though nothing speaks against neutral to make her an option for all parties.

That said, it's a NPC I would like to know exists, not neccessarily have in my parties. Regarding that, I'm with @Eudaemonium; for my parties, I want Eldoth back (with a dex boost).

Sed

I'd love to see a sorcerer in the game.
It was great that they added Baeloth to BG1:EE, but they have more or less confirmed he will never appear as playable, at least not at launch.

Kitless or dragon disciple doesn't really matter.

shawne

Generally speaking, this might be one of those situations where the EEs are following a bit too closely to the original games (which were, after all, a product of their time): of the four new NPCs (not counting Mistah , the two male characters are melee frontliners and the two female characters are a mage and a thief (which traditionally lends towards back-of-the-row participation). It would have been nice to have a brawny female character who wasn't "fragile" in some way (I will never understand the logic of giving Shar-Teel one of the highest Strength scores in the game followed by one of the lowest Constitution scores).

Female dwarf barbarian? Hell yes. Goes well with that Manley portrait.

Thrasymachus

Some Neutral fighters/barbarians.

It's pretty hard to have an "all Neutral" party, as all of the warrior-types are either Good or Evil (excluding Jaheira and Anomen, neither of whom are true warriors, and Anomen typically does not stay Neutral in the long run).

Thrasymachus

And more female warriors (any type). There is only Mazzy right now.

KidCarnival

@shawne: That portrait always screamed druid to me. But other than that, I agree, a female frontliner who can tank would be nice. Shar-Teel was likely given good strength and dex as a pure damage dealer, with Kagain as the tank. It wouldn't have hurt to go with "only" decent dex and a bit more con to make her role more versatile. In EE, her stats are fine tho; as a thief, the low con doesn't matter and her high dex and strength are nice for ranged weapons and backstabbing.

I'd picture my neutral good female dwarven skald as:

* (Throwing) Daggers
* Mace or Morning Star
* Two Weapon Style

Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 19
Int: 16
Wis: 12
Cha: 15

It's not perfect stats, but frontline capable stats with ok damage between singing/lingering song use. What would a skald be if she didn't participate in the action she writes epics about?

shawne

KidCarnival said:

In EE, her stats are fine tho; as a thief, the low con doesn't matter and her high dex and strength are nice for ranged weapons and backstabbing.

That assumes you dual-class her as a thief, though - in her original capacity, she's a Fighter. Granted, dual-classing Shar-Teel is probably the second-most common conversion in the game (the first being Imoen), but Evil parties in need of a thief can get Montaron long before Shar-Teel...

Eudaemonium

shawne said:

KidCarnival said:

In EE, her stats are fine tho; as a thief, the low con doesn't matter and her high dex and strength are nice for ranged weapons and backstabbing.

That assumes you dual-class her as a thief, though - in her original capacity, she's a Fighter.

Shar-Teel is something of a glass canon and always has been. If i pick her up early enough I sometimes spec her in Longbows, but she works great as a DW damage dealer provided you have either Kagain or the PC to tank (or Viconia, which also kinda works provided nobody actually hits her. I've done it on a Core Rules unmodded playthrough and it worked well enough).

shawne

@Eudaemonium: Exactly - that's why I'd like to see another woman who could actually hold her own on the front lines...

KidCarnival

Yeah, and I think it's even more common now to dual her because Dorn takes over as 2H sword damage dealer. Still a bit on the low con side, but at least better con than Shar-Teel and even stronger. Sure you can get Monty before her, but he's paired with Xzar and some people dislike breaking up pairs or want a thief that levels faster. You can get Shar-Teel early too. If I want her as thief, I dual her at level 3 anyway and usually get her at level 2. Monty is multi class and gets better saves and con, Shar-Teel has better strength and levels faster (and comes without baggage) - it's a matter of taste; in the end, both can be equally useful.

The closest to a female frontliner/tank would be Branwen; though she obviously needs Hands of Takkok and a little help in the con department.

Schneidend

EntropyXII said:

@Nonnahswriter - Are they under-represented? I just figured it was hard to tell considering pre-dragon age they all had beards.

Female dwarves don't have beards.

Corvino

I have always perceived that there's a bit of a lack of female and neutral tanks in the Baldur's Gate games. I'm with @Thrasymachus that there are no neutral non-hybrid frontliners.

Jaheira's a good tank but only true neutral (she acts NG) due to the ruleset. I've not really used Mazzy enough to comment, which is a failing on my part. Despite getting on with neutral and evil parties quite well she's still LG, limiting her use in low-rep groups.