Do you ever use weapons not proficient in?

[Deleted User]

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[Deleted User]

I often end up doing this for Karoug, because it's usually not feasible to get all my melee characters proficiency in daggers/long sword/bastard sword. On rare occasions I'll find myself fighting a mustard jelly with a party mostly using piercing weapons and need to improvise with blunt/slashing weapons at hand.

nano

Yeah, it's not too bad for warrior types because their penalties for nonproficiency are relatively minor. On the other hand, I remember one game where my mages ended using the werewolf weapons because my front line was all clerics.

jackjack

I've done so on those few rare occasions where I've run out of weapons in which I'm proficient, (due to weapon breakage), and I'm too far from town, stuck in the middle of some quest, and can't be bothered to run back on account of one character's bad luck. Needless to say, this won't be the case in BG2EE. Flippin' Iron Crisis!

KidCarnival

Werewolf Island is a top spot for using weapons without proficiency. If anything, my bard may have a Bastard Sword pip, or I threw a longsword pip toward Dorn for no reason. Usually, he'll take the sword of Balduran anyway, and the bard or thief takes the dagger (not the worst thing if Shar-Teel is my thief).

In Black Pits, everyone will use the starting weapon all through Tier 1. So clubs quarterstaff or short bow, because my weapons break in every damn fight and I just can't be assed to buy new ones for every gibberling.

Sed

Done it a few times for specific weapon effects, like the silver trait for karoug, level drain immunity in BG2, killing trolls etc.
As mentioned, for fighters the penalty is quite low

Wilbur

In BG1 I do it when killing Narcillicus' pets.

onan

I love the stupefier. But usually I'don't place any pips in maces, so I carry it around and my f/t will occasionally try her chances with it from shadows against strong enemies. If it works great. If not, boots of speed help her hasty retreat.

ZanathKariashi

Warriors type don't really have that much difference between proficient and non-proficient. The other classes are much less effective, but except for a mage, priests and rogues can make due if need be.

Eudaemonium

If I'm being a hardcore RPer I will often make character use weapons they will be soon be taking proficiencies in.

Schneidend

Karoug forces me to do this. Sometimes a party doesn't have anybody specializing in bludgeoning weapons for Clay Golem purposes.

KidCarnival

Oh yes, those stupid golems. In Black Pits, I had only a cleric with a +1 hammer once. Ended up hitting the golem with fists and killed it with a summoned hammer. It wasn't much fun.

Lateralus

Only with the fighter classes. It's good to not train with scimitaurs and then equip drizzts blades. You end up with a +1 hit +3 damage without any training. Meanwhile you can take stuff you want to prepare for bg2 like 2hs.

LordRumfish

Actually, I use non-proficient weapons all the time in BG1.

Minsc may believe in swords for everyone, but I believe in ranged weapons for everyone. Mages and clerics get slings (I find the superior range over darts leads to better tanking setup), almost everyone else gets a bow. Sometimes if I'm feeling amiable towards an NPC I'll let them use the ranged proficiency they start with until they learn to use a bow/sling.

So, yeah. I have mages with THAC0 in the mid-low 20's for a large part of the game, that sort of thing. Ranged firepower is just so effective in BG1 that even a party that's kinda lousy at it can often gun down a thing or two before it reaches the party.

Aside from that, sometimes I use a non-proficient weapon to hit something that requires a magic weapon, or as others mentioned, is immune/highly resistant to my normal weapon. I could imagine even weirder scenarios, let's say... I've got a party where no one really wants Spider Bane +2 or can use it properly. I give it to someone like Eldoth or Garrick to hold in their 2nd weapon slot. If the party gets hit by a web (or an angry hamadryad) I can quickly switch out his weapon so he can escape and maybe even dispel the offending magic. Sounds good doesn't it? It's never actually happened though. Hamadryads don't do much damage, so maybe Garrick or Eldoth could melee her dead... that would be such a train wreck to watch.

Corvino

@LordRumfish has a very good point. Most mages have rubbish proficiencies to start with, and just giving them darts for 3APR makes a lot of sense until you can actually get them proficient in a weapon that won't get them killed in melee.

I'm looking at you Edwin. Staff proficiency. Honestly? *Sigh*

[Deleted User]

Corvino said:

I'm looking at you Edwin. Staff proficiency. Honestly? *Sigh*

All these super intelligent mages and somehow Dynaheir is the only one with the good sense to take a ranged proficiency at level 1.

[Deleted User]

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elminster

Kaigen said:

Corvino said:

I'm looking at you Edwin. Staff proficiency. Honestly? *Sigh*

All these super intelligent mages and somehow Dynaheir is the only one with the good sense to take a ranged proficiency at level 1.

Xzar does too. You can use throwing daggers after all with him and he has enough strength for it to work alright (from a carrying capacity standpoint).

KidCarnival

Corvino said:

@LordRumfish has a very good point. Most mages have rubbish proficiencies to start with, and just giving them darts for 3APR makes a lot of sense until you can actually get them proficient in a weapon that won't get them killed in melee.

I'm looking at you Edwin. Staff proficiency. Honestly? *Sigh*

Fixed by the item mod that adds the stylish ranged wizard staff to High Hedge. Doesn't do much damage, but damn, does it look nice. Everyone capable of using a wizard staff gets a wizard staff. Mage THAC0 always sucks, so using a stylish staff with or without prof changes nothing. (Before I can afford the staff... have the 50 darts from FAI/Nashkel, good luck surviving after you run out.)

ZanathKariashi

Bah, a mage has no reason for melee. If they aren't dead or helpless when the need to shiv them arrives, you did something wrong. I prefer darts as a starting prof, and usually take daggers 2nd. I mean hell, the BG staff of the magi even says that that version is a bizarre melee oriented version made by a combat oriented mage.

And even then, you don't really use a mage staff as a true ranged weapon, it's just a more versatile uber-wand with several possible effects instead of just one.

[Deleted User]

It's partly an oddity of the IE system, too. In PnP you only resort to your ranged weapon when you don't/can't use a spell, because using a spell precludes making a weapon attack. Whereas in this engine a ranged attack is something you can do in-between spell castings, so your weapon capability is a relevant consideration instead of a backup.

nano

KidCarnival said:

Corvino said:

@LordRumfish has a very good point. Most mages have rubbish proficiencies to start with, and just giving them darts for 3APR makes a lot of sense until you can actually get them proficient in a weapon that won't get them killed in melee.

I'm looking at you Edwin. Staff proficiency. Honestly? *Sigh*

Fixed by the item mod that adds the stylish ranged wizard staff to High Hedge. Doesn't do much damage, but damn, does it look nice. Everyone capable of using a wizard staff gets a wizard staff. Mage THAC0 always sucks, so using a stylish staff with or without prof changes nothing. (Before I can afford the staff... have the 50 darts from FAI/Nashkel, good luck surviving after you run out.)

Ah, which item mod is that? I added 1PP to my BG2 and noticed a new mage staff weapon hidden in a box. Freakin awesome! Although the damage is crappy bypassing THAC0 in certain situations is extremely useful and of course it looks amazing.

the_spyder

I'm just plain horrible at planning ahead for what weapons I want to use. So I invariably end up in situations where I didn't plan for needing a blunt weapon. This is almost always the case in the early game for me when I wanted to focus on one bladed weapon or another and bam! I need a flail. Also with my casters, they are never fully prepared with the appropriate weapon proficiency.

Balduran island is a really good example. I generally don't have anyone proficient in Bastard Sword, and no mele'er proficient in dagger. So... But as has already been said, the non-proficient penalty for fighters is pretty small. They are still going to hit a goodly percent of the time.

CoryNewb

Only in a pinch at the start of the game when weapons break. Once I can afford magical items I don't have any reason to use a non-proficent weapon. (Except ww quests like stated above)

Corvino

The non-proficient penalty for fighter classes is -2 THAC0 IIRC, which is conveniently completely negated by the wolfsbane charm you find in Dradeel's hut when fighting lycanthropes. How convenient.

Eudaemonium

Corvino said:

The non-proficient penalty for fighter classes is -2 THAC0 IIRC, which is conveniently completely negated by the wolfsbane charm you find in Dradeel's hut when fighting lycanthropes. How convenient.

I actually never put that together. I feel like a fool.

Michelle

I don't actually play bg1 anymore but in bg2 I have used Belm and Kundane with a cleric/thief many, many times after i got UAI ability.

KidCarnival

nano said:

KidCarnival said:

Corvino said:

@LordRumfish has a very good point. Most mages have rubbish proficiencies to start with, and just giving them darts for 3APR makes a lot of sense until you can actually get them proficient in a weapon that won't get them killed in melee.

I'm looking at you Edwin. Staff proficiency. Honestly? *Sigh*

Fixed by the item mod that adds the stylish ranged wizard staff to High Hedge. Doesn't do much damage, but damn, does it look nice. Everyone capable of using a wizard staff gets a wizard staff. Mage THAC0 always sucks, so using a stylish staff with or without prof changes nothing. (Before I can afford the staff... have the 50 darts from FAI/Nashkel, good luck surviving after you run out.)

Ah, which item mod is that? I added 1PP to my BG2 and noticed a new mage staff weapon hidden in a box. Freakin awesome! Although the damage is crappy bypassing THAC0 in certain situations is extremely useful and of course it looks amazing.

@nano: This one. It has ranged as default attack, but can be used in melee (second setting). It's usable by dual/multiclass, but you can't backstab with it. So truly a wizard's weapon. You'll never get crazy good THAC0, but you will get crazy good looks. Especially in combination with the Cosmetic Revisions mod and the better looking robes in it.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/18108/item-mod-more-style-for-mages-wizards-staffs-with-ranged-attack/p1