Blade/Swashbuckler questions.

badbromance

Hey everyone.

I have recently finished BGEE twice - Once with a PC Blackguard and once as a solo Cleric/Thief in preparation for BG2EE (yay can't wait) and i'm now planning a good character to take through which will be a Blade or a Swashbuckler.

Ok so now to my question: I wish to use the character mainly as a ranged combatant!
Has any body done this before and did you enjoy it?
I understand the benefits they receive to be strong in melee but i'm not concerned with pure power gaming!

Cheers

Lord_Tansheron

If you're not concerned with power, I'm not sure what to tell you. Play what you feel like playing, there shouldn't be anything in your way. The unmodded game is so easy you can afford not to worry about gameplay concerns and just pick the characters you find cool and interesting.

Koyote

Both are fairly competent in ranged combat.
The only way I play Blade is with a bow. Between the spells and the spins, it turns out to be very fun.

CutlassJack

If youre not concerned with power gaming you can pretty much play anything that sounds fun to you. While you won't be making the best use of the Swashbuckler advantages, since you're ranged, the penalty (backstabbing) wont really be an issue either.

Corvino

Both Blades and Swashbucklers excel at melee once they get enough proficiency points (and spells).

I am currently running a Swashbuckler through BG1 with ranged weapons with the intent of dualling to mage in BG2. It's largely identical to a pure thief when played as ranged, but with minor buffs to AC and THAC0.

Blades can use longbows, which could be an advantage. You also get a good number of spells by the end of BG1 and can use stoneskin & mirror image to become very tough.

LordRumfish

OK people. Swashbuckler bonuses to HIT and DAMAGE apply to ranged weapons as well as melee weapons. This seems to be some kind of misconception that isn't connecting through the fog. At the end of BG1, your level 10 swashbuckler is getting +2 hit and damage whether it's scimitars, longswords, shortbows, darts or whichever thief weapon you most prefer. At level 40 it'll be +8 to hit and damage. Swashbucklers make fine ranged combatants.

That being said, I also love bards, so... I would have trouble helping you make up your mind. How attached are you to spells?

Cowled_wizard

Because of spells blades make great meat shields, and as lordrumfish said, swasbuckler bonuses apply to ranged. So, for ranged, id prefer swasbuckler and for hand to hand i prefer stoneskin one.

CutlassJack

There is no misconception. When I said not making best use of advantages I was refering to Two Weapon Fighting, not the hit/damage bonus. :P

LordRumfish

CutlassJack said:

There is no misconception. When I said not making best use of advantages I was refering to Two Weapon Fighting, not the hit/damage bonus. :P

I figured I might be preaching to the choir with you, with a name like @CutlassJack

nano

My vote is for Blade.

I'm not a fan of the Swashbuckler. Passive bonuses are boring. You don't get to use your specialization in a missile weapon. As Corvino pointed out you can't use long bows which are awesome in BGEE. You'll be an acceptable archer but as archery is just point and shoot I don't think it'll be very interesting. Oh, and you can sneak around and disarm traps, hooray.

Blades get all sorts of fun abilities. There's the spins, he can remove fear, he can cast spells. If you run into something that's immune to your normal arrows you can use Melf's Meteors. He can keep enemies away with Web. And he's a Blade, which is an automatic +10 to style. You even get a familiar! Badass.

Corvino

Blades will have a far more active playstyle than Swashbucklers when used at range. Offensive spin can be used for on-demand increases in rate of fire and spells can be used for debuffing and supplemental damage.

badbromance

Yeah after thinking about it I would rather play a Bounty Hunter or a Shadow Dancer over the Swashbuckler so I think I will go for the Blade!
Between offensive spin and Tuigan Bow 4 ARP shouthe support while Neera brings the arcane pain!

badbromance

Also I like to think he will be hurling particular witty insults as he gets his "offensive" on

[Deleted User]

LordRumfish said:

OK people. Swashbuckler bonuses to HIT and DAMAGE apply to ranged weapons as well as melee weapons. This seems to be some kind of misconception that isn't connecting through the fog. At the end of BG1, your level 10 swashbuckler is getting +2 hit and damage whether it's scimitars, longswords, shortbows, darts or whichever thief weapon you most prefer. At level 40 it'll be +8 to hit and damage. Swashbucklers make fine ranged combatants.

Well, this is a game that is more than a decade old; misconceptions in the form of received wisdom that has been passed down can be pretty difficult to correct.

Cowled_wizard

Gessen bow is imho the best bow in soa and its a shortbow, the electricity dmg bypasses stoneskin disrupting casters. Blade has more things but if you want to keep it simple , swasbuckler is a very nice option.

Time4Tiddy

Another point to consider is the bard class quest in BG2 is probably the most creative and fun of all the class quests, while the thief class quest is the least interesting by far.

And, you have only one bard NPC in BG2, and he takes some finding. Thieves on the other hand, are passed out to you like candy, you get one before you even leave the prologue and another is waiting one screen away with zero fighting. I'm assuming the new NPC thief will also be fairly easy to acquire given how quickly you could get the BG:EE new characters. Then you've also got two mages with at least some thieving abilities, one of whom you start with and the other who is, once again, one screen away from the starting zone with no fighting. And still, only the one bard.

RnRClown

I was in turmoil over a similar choice today. Okay, turmoil is a tad dramatic, but I could not get a game under way because of the looming indecision. I like both classes - Thieves and Bards - but I feel more inclined towards spells at this moment in time.

So, after making that decision, I then got caught up in the sub-choice of kits. After weighing up the Swashbuckler verses the Blade for most of my free time today, I opted for the Blade, only to pause and have a ponder over the Skald, and the Jester. I prefer the song that the Jester provides, yet the Jester is the least effective in combat. They have no +1 to hit rolls and damage, like the Skald. They have no offensive, nor defensive spin, like the Blade. I was at an impasse once more.

Bards (and Thieves as they share progression tables) have mediocre THAC0 progression. All of a sudden that +1 to hit and damage for the Skald looks a necessity. The spins for a Blade become situationally essential. The Jester could be left with little option but to get out of dodge or pop invisibility before exhausting themselves via swinging and missing. If it's going to be largely hurling spells from range, I may as well opt for a Sorcerer, or a Mage.

Swashbuckler flashes back into view for adequate combat, while stile maintaining utility of stealth, traps, and detect illusions. No spells, though. Bard returns for moderate combat, with utility of spells, and song, depending on kit. Fighter/Mage multi-class is suddenly an idea.

I hate my indecision.

Felspawn

Swashbuckler is a fantastic kit, the ONLY thing against it is the lack of backstab. If thats not that much of a bother to you then go for it, they are better combatants in terms of melee then blades. the first time i insta-gibed Illasera with a trap i knew the class was kickass

Cowled_wizard

Time4Tiddy said:

Another point to consider is the bard class quest in BG2 is probably the most creative and fun of all the class quests, while the thief class quest is the least interesting by far.

And, you have only one bard NPC in BG2, and he takes some finding. Thieves on the other hand, are passed out to you like candy, you get one before you even leave the prologue and another is waiting one screen away with zero fighting. I'm assuming the new NPC thief will also be fairly easy to acquire given how quickly you could get the BG:EE new characters. Then you've also got two mages with at least some thieving abilities, one of whom you start with and the other who is, once again, one screen away from the starting zone with no fighting. And still, only the one bard.

Some notes: (spoilers)
Bard quest is very funny but reward is very crappy.... very.crappy.
Haerdalis weapon specialization doesnt give him +0.5apr. Only " Fighter" classes (fight, paladin , ranger, barbarian) get it.

A bard as a 2nd caster is for me, great. How about bard casts malison then ur mage casts slow? You just made all ur enemies save at -8... that slaves combat under copper coronet just became much easier.

Felspawn said:

Swashbuckler is a fantastic kit, the ONLY thing against it is the lack of backstab. If thats not that much of a bother to you then go for it, they are better combatants in terms of melee then blades. the first time i insta-gibed Illasera with a trap i knew the class was kickass

I advice you not to use spike trap. It is the single most overpowered thing in bg2 and tob. You can insta-kill demogorgon, melisan,abigazail and baltasar with them. You dont need any other character to do anything. No fighting, no casting, nothing, just the traps.

LordRumfish

RnRClown said:

I was in turmoil over a similar choice today. Okay, turmoil is a tad dramatic, but I could not get a game under way because of the looming indecision. I like both classes - Thieves and Bards - but I feel more inclined towards spells at this moment in time.

So, after making that decision, I then got caught up in the sub-choice of kits. After weighing up the Swashbuckler verses the Blade for most of my free time today, I opted for the Blade, only to pause and have a ponder over the Skald, and the Jester. I prefer the song that the Jester provides, yet the Jester is the least effective in combat. They have no +1 to hit rolls and damage, like the Skald. They have no offensive, nor defensive spin, like the Blade. I was at an impasse once more.

Bards (and Thieves as they share progression tables) have mediocre THAC0 progression. All of a sudden that +1 to hit and damage for the Skald looks a necessity. The spins for a Blade become situationally essential. The Jester could be left with little option but to get out of dodge or pop invisibility before exhausting themselves via swinging and missing. If it's going to be largely hurling spells from range, I may as well opt for a Sorcerer, or a Mage.

Swashbuckler flashes back into view for adequate combat, while stile maintaining utility of stealth, traps, and detect illusions. No spells, though. Bard returns for moderate combat, with utility of spells, and song, depending on kit. Fighter/Mage multi-class is suddenly an idea.

I hate my indecision.

OK, I feel I should defend the jester here. Everything is a matter of degrees. Are they less effective in combat? Sure... but some people like to use 75 roll characters too, and those are less effective. When I made my jester, her starting stats were

STR: 18
DEX: 18
CON: 16
INT: 18
WIS: 4
CHA: 18

and I hardly noticed that jesters were supposed to be "bad" at combat. Her proficiencies ended up in BG:EE as Longbow*, Two-Handed Sword*, Halberd*, and Two-Handed Weapon Style*. I ended the game with a THAC0 of 7 using fire arrows from Deadshot +2, and a THAC0 of about 9 using The World's Edge +3. It was not uncommon for me to chunk something the way Minsc or Dorn do, especially after getting DUHM or the tome of Str. Her AC was decent using the chainmail +3, and I only pulled out the spells for tricky fights such as spellcaster battles.

Once in a while, if I felt like it, I'd pull the song out just to be spiteful.

You don't need spins, you don't need some little +1 hit/damage bonus. I happen to like that I have 100 Pickpocket at level 10, and over 100 Lore. I'm going to rob some merchants blind come BG2:EE, and I'm going to know what all the cool magic items do when I find them. When I get outclassed further in combat, I'll supplement with Contingencies or Tenser's Transformation or such nonsense. I might go so far as to say that unkitted bards could be worth playing, though I'd prefer jester just for style points. ^_~

nano

With those stats it's hardly a surprise Still, UAI should give you a niche as a fighter that can't be covered by straight warrior kits and defensively having spells helps a lot. If you don't use your song the unkitted bard should fight exactly the same as your Jester. I think the Jester's song is better though... poor bard.

I've been playing a Blade archer, inspired by this thread. It's okay but for some reason I was expecting her to wreck things like Coran and that's not really been the case so far. I attribute it to the lack of spins - when you only get a couple per day you can't have it running all the time and when your spin isn't up your archery ability is about the same as Imoen's (ie sucky).