Dorn still doesn't scale in level?

EnterHaerDalis

I was really, really, really disappointed to find out they didn't fix the problem in 1.2 with Dorn (and I think Neera) where they stay at level 1 and don't scale in level like every other NPC in the game.

I don't understand why it's not a problem with Rasaad, he scales fine, but Dorn stays at level 1..

Hate to be a negative nancy but it's a real sad sight when your doing a 75 stat no reload / resurrection challenge and you really need all the NPC's you can get

Thrasymachus

Both Neera and Dorn 'scale' in my game.

(If you have them join your party and then dismiss them, they don't progress afterwards. But I'm pretty sure that's true of all the NPCs.)

Sceptenar

Like Thrasymachus said, they do scale now. But only up to the point where you recruit them into your party.

EnterHaerDalis

Thrasymachus said:

Both Neera and Dorn 'scale' in my game.

(If you have them join your party and then dismiss them, they don't progress afterwards. But I'm pretty sure that's true of all the NPCs.)

Well he doesn't scale in my game and never has. I denied him into my party and met him at the FAI and he was still level 1. Rasaad was level 4. I'm not sure about Neera because I took her gem bag and kicked her out with no intentions of ever using her

Fardragon

Dorn scales up until you encounter him near Nashkal. If you don't go to Nashkal until you are higher level, then you will get higher level Dorn, but he won't level up without you after the ambush encounter.

Quartz

I believe they scale to how much experience you have, whereas the old NPCs scale to what your level is.

EnterHaerDalis

Fardragon said:

Dorn scales up until you encounter him near Nashkal. If you don't go to Nashkal until you are higher level, then you will get higher level Dorn, but he won't level up without you after the ambush encounter.

Wow. Okay thanks for the info but

I have no idea what the devs were thinking when they set it up like this. If a NPC never joins your party he should scale ..

Dee

It has to do with how the game spawns creatures. When the creature is first spawned, the game detects your level and spawns the appropriate creature. Once the creature is spawned, it doesn't perform that check.

Fardragon

All the NPCs get their level set when you first talk to them, wether or not they join the party at that time.

Dorn is a sort of exception, since you can talk to him in the inn without setting his level, but he can't join at that point.

Eudaemonium

Fardragon said:

All the NPCs get their level set when you first talk to them, wether or not they join the party at that time.

Dorn is a sort of exception, since you can talk to him in the inn without setting his level, but he can't join at that point.

Is the Dorn you meet in the FAI coded as a different creature to the one who actually joins you, like the Imoen in Candlekeep is also a different one? That might explain it.

Fardragon

Indeed he is.

Although you can still kill him and loot his sword.

Eudaemonium

If you speak to him, and then kill him and loot his sword, does he still turn up outside Nashkel?

Not that I'd ever kill Dorn. He's my right-hand man in my path to Divinity and Murder.

Jalily

Eudaemonium said:

If you speak to him, and then kill him and loot his sword, does he still turn up outside Nashkel?

No, it checks for deadness.

SharGuidesMyHand

Fardragon said:

All the NPCs get their level set when you first talk to them, wether or not they join the party at that time.

Does this only apply to BG1? I distinctly remember in BG2 that I could talk to Anomen or Korgan in the Copper Coronet, but if I initially turned them down and then waited until later before recruiting them, they would be scaled to a higher level than if I had recruited them when I first talked to them.

wampa

@SharGuidesMyHand - I believe NPCs who had never joined your party had their level recalculated whenever you entered the area in BG2.

Balquo

What Dee said above is true but the new NPCs actually work differently. They are all created level 1 no matter your level. The dialogue between you both is were the level checks are taken, so only when you invite them into your party will their level change. So if you decline them when you first meet them then they will remain level 1 forever. Rasaad is the only one who will continue to check your level if you decline him initially.

So whether or not something needs to be looked at is another question but that is how it currently works.

Kilivitz

I would go for consistency at least between the new NPCs. Have all 3 of them behaving the same way Rasaad does. If possible, have all of them behaving that way! Though I don't know whether that'd be better or worse than the original system.

CutlassJack

Balquo said:

Rasaad is the only one who will continue to check your level if you decline him initially.

Well to be fair, Rasaad is the only one shown to be actually practicing his skills while hanging around waiting for your invite. :P

AlexDeLarge

Ok, so what i usually do in No Reload runs is i go straight to the basilisk area and solo all the basilisks, gets me about 20k xp. This way i can have all the npc's at their max possible level. Will this be the case for Dorn as well? If i meet him at FAI and then go to basi area and get lvl 5 for my protagonist, then to nashkel, what level should i expect Dorn to be after the ambush?

EnterHaerDalis

Dee said:

It has to do with how the game spawns creatures. When the creature is first spawned, the game detects your level and spawns the appropriate creature. Once the creature is spawned, it doesn't perform that check.

In retrospect I'm not even sure this is true

Pretty darn sure you can go to the High Hedge at level 1, spawning Kivan, come back as a level 5 and he will scale with you're level. Maybe Beamdog did things differently for the new NPC's

TJ_Hooker

EnterHaerDalis said:

Dee said:

It has to do with how the game spawns creatures. When the creature is first spawned, the game detects your level and spawns the appropriate creature. Once the creature is spawned, it doesn't perform that check.

In retrospect I'm not even sure this is true

Pretty darn sure you can go to the High Hedge at level 1, spawning Kivan, come back as a level 5 and he will scale with you're level. Maybe Beamdog did things differently for the new NPC's

Based on a quick test I did a while back, I believe what Dee said is partly true. The creature is spawned at a given level as soon as you enter the map. So if you level up after entering an area but before talking to the NPC (and do not leave the area before talking the the NPC), the NPC will be scaled according to the level you were when you entered the area. However, if you were to enter an area, leave the area without talking to the NPC, level up, and then return and recruit the NPC, I believe the NPC will be scaled to your current level, not the level you were when you first entered the area. I hope that makes sense.

Erg

TJ_Hooker said:

EnterHaerDalis said:

Dee said:

It has to do with how the game spawns creatures. When the creature is first spawned, the game detects your level and spawns the appropriate creature. Once the creature is spawned, it doesn't perform that check.

In retrospect I'm not even sure this is true

Pretty darn sure you can go to the High Hedge at level 1, spawning Kivan, come back as a level 5 and he will scale with you're level. Maybe Beamdog did things differently for the new NPC's

Based on a quick test I did a while back, I believe what Dee said is partly true. The creature is spawned at a given level as soon as you enter the map. So if you level up after entering an area but before talking to the NPC (and do not leave the area before talking the the NPC), the NPC will be scaled according to the level you were when you entered the area. However, if you were to enter an area, leave the area without talking to the NPC, level up, and then return and recruit the NPC, I believe the NPC will be scaled to your current level, not the level you were when you first entered the area. I hope that makes sense.

Yep, I did also some tests a while back (IIRC it was a couple of patches ago) and this is how it works for the original NPCs. The new ones work like @Balquo said (or at least they did last time I checked).