Is the EE edition getting enhanced AI?

SFJake

Problem I have with EE in general, is that its probably not bringing all my mods and options I love so deeply now. My experience is EXTREMELY customized.

However, most of it is superficial and I can live without.

The AI, however, isn't. I can't find anything. I'm used to SCS's AI mostly. Basically, just a refined artificial intelligence, something that uses spells with a bit more thought, enemies chooses their target more carefully (don't follow the SAME guy forever, etc).

Just an overhaul of their behavior goes a long way, because the default behaviors were really really dumb.


So, is EE getting those (imo) crucial AI changes? I could not find info on this.

Suiboon

I would like to see this happen as well, but those of us who want the game to be generally harder might be in the minority. If you've played through BG a couple of times, know the locations of items, the hard enemies, and everything they can do - it will get easy. For a new player SCS level gameplay would probably be pretty intimidating.

Also some of the encounters are really poorly designed. Pitting 1 guy against a group of 6, happens pretty often. Then again those characters might be just suicidal and/or delusional, maybe that could explain it

So... yes, I hope they'd revamp the AI and maybe even some encounters, but I doubt it will happen. Enemy mages having access to stoneskin will be good, however.

The game should be moddable though, so it doesn't REALLY matter that much. Hopefully.

BelgarathMTH

I've read threads from people playing the vanilla game for the first time who are really struggling. And I remember my own first time, even after all these years of playing. I struggle still with the battle against Sarevok and his cronies, and with late SoA and ToB, often wanting to turn the difficulty slider from "core" to "normal".

Part of the reason for that is my refusal to memorize scripts and item locations. I have no idea how to find the "Holy Ring of Helm +5" or whatever, that you need to own Kangax and Draconis or whomever, unless I stumble upon it in game, or the exact spells to cast and the exact placement of snares to make Irenicus die as soon as he finishes his speech. That keeps the game fresh and interesting to me.

I also like roleplaying and enjoying the different party combinations, and I still have ideas I want to try out with parties, even after all these years.

I tried SCS once and hated it. Absolutely. Hated. It.

So, I wouldn't object to a reworked AI that is capable of some more intelligent decision making, but only if it is worked into a difficulty slider that makes it absolutely optional.

SFJake

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a complete SCS-like rework. I like it, but its excessive: too much uses of excessively annoying spells being the biggest killer.

Yes, the game is hard, but its also HIGHLY abusable. AI tweaks I'm thinking off would have more effects on smaller fights than the bigger ones. I'd see nothing wrong though, to have the AI tweaks an option.

You're right though, if this game is as moddable as the original, I'd expect mods to make their ways here as well.

FrozenDervish

Enhanced AI would be fantastic as another option in the difficulty slider.

Winthal

belgarathmth said:

Part of the reason for that is my refusal to memorize scripts and item locations. I have no idea how to find the "Holy Ring of Helm +5" or whatever, that you need to own Kangax and Draconis or whomever, unless I stumble upon it in game, or the exact spells to cast and the exact placement of snares to make Irenicus die as soon as he finishes his speech. That keeps the game fresh and interesting to me.

@belgarathmth So you can just choose not to memorize locations of items you find etc.? That's... handy. I wish I could just erase the whole game from my mind so I could re-experience it all over again with fresh eyes

NWN_babaYaga

I never tried out any mod except the (thanks god) "dungeon be gone" mod for the BG2 prologue. But an advanced AI is always a good thing. Some different caster type AI´s so you never know what this mage may be able to do etc.

FrozenDervish

SCS was fantastic mod for those of us that liked increased difficulty without the extreme cheese most difficulty increasers brought.

shinsero

In my opinion SCS is really good. It's harder to abuse the AI with common tricks like "cloudkill from off screen". I tried the Tactics mod in BG2, but didn't like it as it boosts enemies too much with scripts and powers... SCS is quite "fair" as it only changes AI, but I have to admit that I took severe beatings even in some "easy" battles.

Excalibur_2102

Perhaps some of these 400+ Enchancements theyve done include some AI fixes/improvements? They arent exactly clear on what everything is... Either way as others have said, you should be able to mod SCS back in there.

Zafiro

I love SCS, I can't even see myself playing BG without it, but I know people that don't appreciate it at all, damn right "hate" it, I guess I can agree it should be optional.

DavidW

I certainly think it should be optional! It's ridiculously difficult for first-time players.

kiros

I think an option to increase general AI within the game would be much appreciated, especially for experienced players who understand the fundamental basics of game play. I really enjoy a tactical challenge as opposed to just breezing through every battle.

I understand you can "turn up the difficulty" but I don't wish to take "double damage" or have any other detrimental effect enforced upon my characters.

Sabotin

I think the ascension mod did this already (or something like it): make higher difficulties unlock additional AI routines and tactics (spell combinations etc., too) and then you can save the super cheese and uselessly frustrating ones for the insane difficulty.

And for the difficulty in general I'd like it unhardcoded (if it is), maybe each difficulty having a separate editable .ini file hidden somewhere (no gui work :P) or a separately selectable/editable "custom" difficulty?

Lemernis

DavidW said:

I certainly think it should be optional! It's ridiculously difficult for first-time players.

Totally agree.

We already have some extremely well executed tactical mods with SCS and SCS II, and Ascension/WeiDU. I think what we need is an official mod manager function that makes mod installation easier and, if possible, standardizes compatibility.

kiros

Are previous mods going to be able to integrate well into BGEE? I mean they are making fairly hefty changes to source codes etc and from my experience in installing/managing baldur's gate mods, If there any inconsistency's the game craps itself. Certain mod's need certain files/patches etc etc.

CCarluNN

Quite a few enemies in IWD2 use plenty of potions before and during combat. The nice thing about potions is that the effects happen almost instantly, and they add some spice to the fight. So if integrating whole mods is going too far, then at least increase enemy AI by making them use potions.

*quaffs a potion*

Nalim

shinsero said:

. It's harder to abuse the AI with common tricks like "cloudkill from off screen".

Afaik this was fixed with the ToB expansion, so I assume this will also be fixed in BG:EE.

Son_of_Imoen

kiros said:

Are previous mods going to be able to integrate well into BGEE? I mean they are making fairly hefty changes to source codes etc and from my experience in installing/managing baldur's gate mods, If there any inconsistency's the game craps itself. Certain mod's need certain files/patches etc etc.

I think mods need to be updated before they will work with BGEE. One of the modders on this forum, mentioned some mods that will be available already shortly after release: NPC1Project was mentioned and Rogue Rebalancing, if I remember well. I tried finding the post, but failed, this forum is not easily searchable.

BGEE is sad news therefore, for orphan mods (mods with no more modders around being updated). But SCS is an active mod, so very likely we'll see that one updated for BGEE. I don't know how long it'll take though. I hope quickly, but I guess improving BGEE's AI is much more work for the modders than a simple adding of dialogue like with NPC1Project.

Good news is, orphan mods sometimes find a stepmother. I read for instance, The Bigg is keeping WeiDu updated, when Wesley Weimer left the modding community to give all his attention to his professor-ship.

kiros

Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!

This is good news, hopefully SCS will be available relatively soon upon BGEE's release..otherwise I might have to delay myself from playing the game

theJoshFrost

The increased AI/difficulty would be nice for advanced players. Though for me, a person who's only beat BG1-2 once in they're entirety, the game is still annoyingly hard at times. I never cheated (until the dragon boss's in ToB) but I cheesed the hell out of the games at times. No regrets.

kiros

I think a few of the more experienced players can affiliate with thinking the game is to easy, especially if they have adapted to the harder based mods (SCS/Tactics/Improved Anvil) to name a few. Although SCS really only grants improved AI, which is fantastic.

Bercon

@DavidW Are you in BG:EE beta or do you otherwise have any idea on how big task it is to update SCS & SCSII for BG(2):EE and are you going to do the porting?

Oh sorry I completely forgot you already mentioned this in other thread:
"I tentatively expect to have a working beta of SCS very quickly indeed after WEIDU becomes compatible with BG:EE. The caveats are (i) that I'm not failing to anticipate some major under-the-hood restructuring of BG; (ii) that I get my intended new version of SCS done in time for the BG:EE release."

DavidW

I have a BG:EE invite but I think it's still being processed. In any case, I'm currently in the process of recoding SCS in a way which (touch wood) should make adjusting it to BG:EE very fast indeed. We'll see if that works in practice...

Roller12

An optional AI? How that would be even possible, rewrite entire scripts for each difficulty, i dont think they will bother, thats quite a lot of work.