End of SoA choices
meagloth
Member Posts: 3,806
Huloo, noob question. So, I've been to the end of SoA once, with a good aligned sorcerer. I don't remember what options I took for the challenges exactly, but they where mostly the good ones. I was just wondering what the impact of your choices here have on the game, if any. I think most people chose to lose 1 point of dex, instead of kill a party member, but you can just raise them afterward. And you could fight the beholders, or you can still not take the Cloak and just cast remove fear.
Sorry if this is in the wrong spot, I would put it in help for new players but the whole thing is one huge spoiler.
Sorry if this is in the wrong spot, I would put it in help for new players but the whole thing is one huge spoiler.
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What's is bizarre though is how you can go around and be practically a real bastard through two games and choose almost all the evil options that's possible and still not fall as long as you keep your reputation score high enough, yet fall immediately upon these actions. I guess it can be handwaved as how these end options is supposed to symbolise character development of some sort but it still strikes me as pretty lazy design.
Although I've mainly played it with the Revised Hell Trials that @velehal mentioned. They are much better.
I really do think the whole morality point in an RPG is very important so I have always played Soa/ToB with mods such as Virtue, enhanced hell trials, priest strongholds based on lawful-chaotic, etc.
I guess for Good and Evil characters it is fairly black and white. Neutral characters could quite easily roleplay the "evil" option and get an alignment change without actually departing from their neutral stance.
Revised Hell Trials makes it somewhat better, but it's still pretty damn narrowminded.
I don't like the trials because they are too restrictive. There should be room for roleplaying something else than a saint that can do no wrong. And while some of the evil options are rather despicable, not all of them are, imo. Accepting or refusing the nymph cloak is more a matter of practicality than anything else, considering the evil has already been done in that case.
edit: the Revised Hells Trials mod looks great. Anyone knows if it will be compatible with BG2:EE?
Overall that is an evil act and in hell all "evil" decisions do bring to your "fall". In the grand scheme of things it comes down to will you leave hell with your soul intact or does your herritage win over you.
In the end of it all, only real repercausitons are towards your allignment. So Holly smite against evil characters works against you as you are evil now, cause of it if you in the end decide to become a God you become an evil God, a new God of Murder instead of new Helm-like God if you were neutral or Lanthander-like God if you were good before hell.
That said though, Drow are inherently evil in 2nd Edition. Wearing a Drow-skin cloak would be pretty bloody evil, or at least utterly sociopathic. *Edit* Might make an interesting Lawful Neutral character though - obeys the laws of their society, kills the Drow that threaten it and proudly displays lovingly wrought Drow-skin boots and accessories. yuck.
And their numbers were less then 10% of all drow. With 70% of all drow belonging to Lolth and with that are evil as hell. If you look lore wise, drows are evil cause they don't know better for the most part as Lolth keeps a short leash on them all.
Only redemption and way for anything different comes from Elistraee who went into Elven banishment with her family with hope she could save drow's from her evil mother. Other Drow gods are all as evil as Lolth. Her son's Vhaerun and Selvetarm, Kirensalee and Ghandalur (I might have miswrote some of the names).
So it is funny that most of the drow are evil, even neutral drows are sort of evil, look at Vico, when you have her in party she is evil and she even does evil things without any problem, but that is cause she really doesn't know better till we teach her there is a better way (if you are a good party with Vico in group).
Do you want to tell me that my Chaotic Evil, psychopat, arsonist, Joker-wannabe Sorcerer actually got a bit better after he fell in Hell ?? (CE -> NE)
What I think should happen is that the hell trials should be adjusted along the lines of the revised hell trials mod, but only in regards to alignment and what items you acquire (and the Dex punishment should be removed). Rather than linking rewards to your decisions, rewards should instead be given simply for having managed to pass the trial and discovering more about yourself and your relationship to your heritage. Each trial would have a reward type offering a selection of upgrades: Wrath for example would be an attribute boost where you could choose to increase any attribute by 2 according to your requirements, whereas Selfishness could give you a choice of resistances.
Should these changes be implemented the hell trials would lose their bizarre binary morality to be replaced instead with the ability for the player to further evolve and develop their character in a logical, fair and emergent manner consistent with a maturing demi-god and player agency.
On the other hand, they seem to have got rid of the bonus +1 Core Stat from the Wrath Trial, which is a shame.
I still think it should tally your total for alignment (or be completely overhauled). Neutral if you split 2/3 or 3/2, and the other two if you're 4 or more evil or good path.
I guess I can always use 'Keeper to add the bonus after the fact.