Dual Wielding fix for Rangers

wariisop

I am wondering if the Devs are going to fix the free dual wielding that Ranger are supposed to get. I believe the skill never actually fills in the the dual wielding bubble which is annoying when you looks at your skills to see what your character has. Also I am curious if they are going to offer the master skill in dual wielding and will only certain Ranger classes be allowed to to achieve that automatically. Lastly tracking, this is the weakest area in BG when it comes to rangers, IWD gave you extra missions and warnings about creatures in the area that made having a Ranger worth your while. I hated exploring an area with a Ranger and being ambushed by creatures because the Ranger can tell me nothing of the area.

Tanthalas

Hmm, I don't remember a problem with Rangers not getting their 2 free points with dual-wielding.

Winthal

The dual wielding should already work fine yea, I've never had any problems getting the 2 free stars. As for tracking, that would be awesome... in theory Problem is the ability is only really useful the first few playthroughs before you know the game too well. Perhaps in a future D&D game with a more randomized world a'la Diablo where enemies aren't fixed to specific areas, it would be a solid ability throughout and really give rangers their own niche

Tanthalas

Actually, about tracking, isn't that a Ranger HLA?

wariisop

I remember supposedly having the skill, but when you lvl up the bubbles would never be filled in and you could use one of your choices for two weapon skill even when you were supposed to already have it.

Tanthalas

@wariisop

Are you sure that wasn't when you were investing the 3rd point?

Winthal

Tanthalas said:

Actually, about tracking, isn't that a Ranger HLA?

@Tanthalas Hmm I had completely forgotten about it, still a pretty useless ability:

Tracking
Classes: Ranger
With an intimate knowledge of his surroundings and the creatures that live within them, a Ranger can use the Tracking ability to give himself a general idea of what creatures are in an area and which direction they are. Red arrows at the edge of the screen will point in the general direction of the creatures in the area. (Note: This ability can be used as much as you want)

wariisop

@Tanthalas

Rangers are supposed to go all the way to mastery two sword style unless they are limite by specialty kits. Though it is limited by lvl when they get the skill, I don't remember ever permanently seeing the skill filled in, it was seemed implied by the Thaco.

Tanthalas

@wariisop

Is that in PnP?

wariisop

I might be wrong, but it they do get 3 lvls of Two Weapon fighting not 2, one is Two Weapon Fighting, two is Improved Weapon Fighting, and 3 is Greater Two Weapon Fighting. I don't remember getting all these for free in BG 2. I could be wrong though, Master Two Weapon fighting may have to be bought. Also it seems like the Hide in shadows is not properly applied to Rangers either. Here is what is supposed to happen at each lvl.

The following 17 pages are in this category, out of 17 total.
B

Bow Strength

D

Diehard

E

Evasion

F

Favored Enemy

G

Greater Two Weapon Fighting

H

Hide in Plain Sight


I

Improved Precise Shot
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Wild Empathy

L

Light Armor Proficiency

M

Manyshot

P

Precise Shot


R

Rapid Shot

S

Shield Proficiency (General)

T

Two Weapon Fighting

W

Wild Empathy
Wilderness Lore

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ranger

lansounet

These are 3.5 D&D edition rules... BG is 2nd edition rules and deviates slightly for convenience.
Ranger is fine with getting 2 pips in Two-Weapons Style

FrozenDervish

Yes, those are 3.5. BG2 gets 2 pips in 2 weapon fighting with the third having to be an investment by the player.

kraed

@Tanthalas

In AD&D2 the ranger may use two weapons at the same time without the standard penalties (-2 for main weapon, -4 for offhand weapon) provided they meet the following requirements:
- Wearing studded leather armour or lighter (read: armour with AC 7 or more, so this includes ring mail even though it weighs more)
- The ranger must be able to wield his main weapon in one hand
- The second weapon must be smaller in size and weigh less than the main weapon
- The ranger can't use a shield when using two weapons (obviously)

That's directly from the official handbook for the ranger. Getting free proficiency is actually not what it is like in pnp at all, it's just a convenient way of doing it. I haven't played a ranger myself however (the chances of actually rolling high enough stats to get to play one are remote at best), so I don't know if they can also invest in dual wielding to get even better, but I would guess they can. Personally I am not a fan of dual wielding (+1 attack a round isn't that awesome compared to hitting significantly more often in pnp) There is no automatically getting better at dual wielding as they level.

Tanthalas

@kraed

I'm surprised those weren't applied in BG2. They didn't have much problems applying similar stuff to IWD2.

kraed

@Tanthalas

IWD2 uses the third edition rulesets which are radically different to the second edition. Quite noticeable in the feats - I believe rangers in third edition get the TWP proficiency feats for free at certain levels, rather than a class-unique bonus.

I think the issue here is transparency. These sorts of bonuses are almost impossible to convey to the user with BG's interface past the character selection screen. If you didn't notice the bonus when you created the character (and lets face it who does remember all those random stats thrown at you) then you may never realise it exists at all. The only way I could see BG2 of displaying it would be a permenantly active spell effect that granted the bonus, and that feels a little sloppy to me, as well as probably prone to bugs and accidentally being dispelled.

Tanthalas

@kraed

I knew about IWD2 being 3E, what I meant is that Rangers got the two-weapon fighting feats for free, but only if they used leather armor. Anything higher than that and it was disabled. They could only use medium/heavy armor and benefit from the Two-weapon fighting feats if they actually spent feats on them.

But on the other hand, in IWD2 you could see good descriptions for everything in the game.