Why dragon age is like an MMO
Worg
Member Posts: 170
Now, this is a response to someone who said in another thread that "Dragon age is nothing like an MMO" and I didn't much care to go off topic in the original thread.
Dragon age ----------------------------------------- World of Warcraft
-Third person view ------------------------------------Third person view
-Natural/fast health regeneration outside of combat ---------ditto
-Combat is basically nothing but a button mash of ----------same here
the abilities that you got at level up through a skill tree
-A mana system---------------------------------------mana system
-Few spells to throw around-----------------------------few spells to throw around
-Your stats increase every level and make you stronger-------ditto
Now of course this game had an okay story and lots of options. but really, this seems to be a game targeted at MMO players and hyped towards old rpg players.
I would go so far as to say that this is D&D 4 of crpg's.
Any game can have a good story, but the gameplay was ridiculously bad. I remember being a rogue character and pressing the same combo 1,2,3,4 for every god damned enemy.
Dragon age ----------------------------------------- World of Warcraft
-Third person view ------------------------------------Third person view
-Natural/fast health regeneration outside of combat ---------ditto
-Combat is basically nothing but a button mash of ----------same here
the abilities that you got at level up through a skill tree
-A mana system---------------------------------------mana system
-Few spells to throw around-----------------------------few spells to throw around
-Your stats increase every level and make you stronger-------ditto
Now of course this game had an okay story and lots of options. but really, this seems to be a game targeted at MMO players and hyped towards old rpg players.
I would go so far as to say that this is D&D 4 of crpg's.
Any game can have a good story, but the gameplay was ridiculously bad. I remember being a rogue character and pressing the same combo 1,2,3,4 for every god damned enemy.
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Comments
I liked it even if some characters are.. not the most likable
In that I agree that DA is too much like WoW - but that does not turn it into an MMO
Both have graphical improvements over original
Both have extra content
Both have multiplayer
Both are RPGs
Both are fantasy based
Both have "real time" turn based combat
Both have linear progression
/sarcasm
oh god I just fed a troll
can we please get a lock on this thread, it has nothing to do with BGEE...
For instance, Wow has a brilliant combat system (by the way, I HATE WoW), which cannot be described as button mashing unless you trying to be expertly bad at it, though I think maybe you talking about the repetition you can get into. The combat relies on party co-operation which is really what you want out of an RPG, especially multiplayer which is where, afterall RPGs come from. I don't think people are so keen on the adoption of the WoW-esque archetypal classes; taunting tank, DPS, healer, and perhaps crowd control as it is rather formulaic, tired, and repetitive.
Things that are fundamental to WoW that I would see as uncomfortable in a dedicated RPG would be things like; Facilitation of power gaming, lack of any overall narrative linking the many quests together, get me ten kobold ears- type quests, the online disinhibition effect. I'm sure there must be many more.. and I don't know if any of those apply to Dragon Age.
I've always thought there's something to be said for a game where you pretty much start out with what you have at the end, you get the odd better gun or whatever, you just have to get better at playing or give up.
I suppose this is gaining actual vs artificial xp, levelling for new skills should make the game more interesting, not merely equip you for scaled enemies.
1. I don't know about you, but I played Dragon Age Origins in classic top down form. The third person view was included because that particularly gameplay style is terrible for consoles. Setting that aside, if you are really noting that this is a similarity to MMOs, then I think Capcom needs to market Resident Evil differently. So, a surface similarity at best that discounts the fact that there are MMOs (and other types of games) that do it differently.
2. Again, not really a defining characteristic of a MMOs. I see this plenty of places. I've also seen MMOs that go pretty hardcore against this. Again, a surface similarity at best that discounts the fact that there are MMOs (and other types of games) that do it differently.
3. Bull. Straight up bull. Setting aside the fact that playing an MMO at a competent level requires far more than brainless button mashing, Dragon Age (especially pre-patch) required you actually do use your brain with regards to ability use and positioning. Hell, I actually had to plan encounters far more intently in Dragon Age then I did in the Baldur's Gate series.
4. You... are kidding, right? This isn't even an MMO invention. Hell, this exists in TABLETOP GAMES.
5. See above. Possibly with more random capital letters.
6. See 4, add at least three exclamation marks and possibly a swear.
Seriously, you remember always having to push 1, 2, 3, 4 as a Rogue in DA? Exactly buttons did you push as a fighter or thief in BG/2? Because I seem to recall it was mainly right click.
Honestly, if I tortured reason like this, I could point out that Baldur's Gate is an RTS or a First Person Shooter. You touch surface similarities at best (some of which have more to do with the general evolution of gameplay and the discovery of more dynamic gameplay options), completely miss the point at worst.
I sincerely hope you are trolling.
In any case i'm the person the OP is refering too who said that DRagon age have nothing to do with a MMO...
Most MMO (not all like for exemple Dungeons & Dragons Online) are uge worlds that take a long time to explore and travel into... DA have small maps that we travel into trought fast travel mechanics, much like Baldur's Gate 2 in fact...
That's just to point oout another difference that come to mind
The number of the spells in WoW used to be enough for a multiplayer game.
Tons of games have mana systems.
Every games makes you stronger as you level up.
Finally, combat in WoW never used to be a button mash for some including myself, takes dedication to heal battlegrounds with a numbers of players between 10 and 40, and fight off dmg dealers of your back, and level engineering and alchemy on the same toon for the goodies.
My apologies if this sounds like a rant, by the way, what are we talking about?
Though I actually don't agree with a lot of the points in the OP, my biggest criticism of DA:O was that its combat system seemed very WoW-ish, in the sense that it revolved around combining Tank, DPS and Healer in whatever worked best for the situation.
This works great for WoW. It's utterly fantastic for it. It means that you can jump into a dungeon with a bunch of strangers you've never met and instantly be clear on what everyone's role is and how they'll be achieving it.
But in a single player RPG? I want more. I want more options for strategy and tactics, a larger variety of roles, etc.
I actually had a lot of trouble with DA:O at first because the concept of having a fighter whose entire purpose was to just sit there and soak up damage was so completely alien to me.
Imagine fitting Baldur's Gate into such a context. You create a Fighter/Cleric. Is it a tank? Melee DPS? Healer? AHHHHH I DON'T KNOW! Then you've got the Thief. It doesn't fit ANY of those roles and yet it's still an essential class. Then you've got just a straight Fighter. Tank AND DPS, suckaz!
Note that I have DA:O on the 360, so the PC version may be more strategic.
Plus the different classes are more versatile than they look. Ok it's not D&D level maybe but since you can't have all the skills, you have to choose and end up with different roles/styles.
At the risk of getting slammed, I would even say WoW is more in-depth in this way than DA:O. Three races, three classes? That was fair for a huge game where they were creating their own new world, but then for the sequel they're just like "No, I feel like that was too much selection, you know? Let's just have one race and three classes. But now people say your last name in dialogue!"
Good game, though.
I dunno, maybe I'm reading into something that isn't there, but PCers seem pretty condescending in their comments, as though games on PCs are superior to console games, not just different. You may be the exception.
To be fair though, I do see how games are often simplified, but like you said, that tends to be better for me. I want a good story and experience, not so much a grueling, tactical challenge. I really didn't find BG to be all that challenging though. Great story and experience, but I would say that Fallout 3 also has a great story and experience, and it was built for consoles.
Edit: I just found a great quote on these forums to show what I'm talking about: This argument goes further than just the UI. Most games in general in the last 10 years have been dumbed down to the point of ridiculousness in order to cater to the casual console gamer market. Look at Dragon Age and Skyrim.. Much newer than Baldur's Gate.. Much worse than Baldur's Gate.
Compared to Bioware (or licensed) games, they didn't change so much. Bioware, changed, but they rather just sunk steadily. Though, one of the Aurora engine games I liked - Mask of the Betrayer was actually pretty good, I'm afraid i will never play anything Bioware, and that is a pity.
I appreciate why it's there, but it has no buisness being in Dragon Age as it's a single player game. One of the reasons I LOVED the fights in infinity engine games, is I'm always thinking about where I'm fighting, where potential choke points are, and how I can best control the ebb and flow of a combat to my party's advantage. Dragon Age didn't give you enough characters to control to replicate this aspect of BG, and relied on MMO style threat generation to compensate.
Admittedly I never played DAO it looked and feeled decent in the LP I watched.