Whirlwind (HLA) question

Tzampapaizeis

Hi.

When you are using improved WW set ur attack per round to 10...how it works when you dual wielding? any extra bonus or just those 10 attacks. with only mainhand? or half with main and half with offhand...any1 knows?

Bercon

Off hand always hits just once per round, all extra attacks are hit by main hand. Even when you have off hand weapon that increases APR, you'll hit those extra attacks with main hand. And you can never attack more than 5 times per round, 4 hits with main hand and 1 hit with off hand.

WW and Improved Haste double the number of "rounds" you have. So, you'll attack 4+1+4+1 = 10 hits, 8 with main hand and 2 with off hand in a span of single round.

Tzampapaizeis

i see thx a lot it was really well expained

i was sure that WW description was saying something about setting ur attacks per round to 10 not double the numbers or round you got....that why i couldnt find out how it works

Tzampapaizeis

and i guess if you are using twohand or 1hand+shield or even 1 hand without anything in offhand you get 10 attacks or double ur round? (cause in that case u wont reach 10 apr that the description of bg 2 was saying

Tzampapaizeis

ill make the question as simple as i can since it became confusing and i d like an 100% valid answer if possible... i was wondering which style works better with WW ... eg what the points of going dual wield for the extra attack if WW totaly negate that extra attack IF WW works like the desciption says "set ur attacks to 10" offc i know that u get the extra attack when ur not using WW but still i d like to know which style benefit the most from ww.

Tsyrith

Two-handed weapons benefit the most from Whirlwind and Greater Whirlwind, due to Attacks Per Round being set to 10 like you said (better explanation of the mechanic by Bercon below), though it depends on the weapon, as you might want to use Dragonslayer 10x in one round, or for some other esoteric benefit like 10 attempts with the sleep-on-hit dagger, or maybe a Black Blade of Disaster if you can also manage level 9 arcane spells.

Personally I prefer getting 5 APR with Dual Wielding and using Improved Haste to have a passive 10 APR that lasts at least over a turn (10 rounds). This is typically achieved with the scimitar Belm +2, though if memory serves there's also the scarlet ninja-to +3 that only monks (and thieves) can use.

Bercon

Whirlwind does negate the benefit of the extra attack you receive from dual wielding. If you have only 1 weapon, you get 5 APR with that weapon and your rounds doubled so you'll attack 10 times with that weapon per round.

WW + Dual wielding = 8 main hand attacks + 2 off hand attacks
WW + Not dual wielding = 10 main hand attacks

Improved Haste doubles your rounds, but it does not set your APR to 5. So for example Thief with single sword (1 APR) vs. two swords (2 APR) would get benefit from dual wielding.

IH + Dual wielding = 2 main hand attacks + 2 off hand attacks
IH + Not dual wielding = 2 main hand attacks

Tzampapaizeis

so WW should say something like "it sets ur apr to 5 and doubles ur round" and not "sets ur attack to 10" ....anyways thx again man

Lord_Tansheron

If you want to get the most out of WW, unequip your offhand for the duration. That way you won't "waste" any attacks on sub-par offhand swings, and stay on 10 APR regardless. Works especially well if you have points in Single Weapon Style, but it's good even if you don't. You can also equip a shield for some extra protection while WWing.

Corvino

On a Fighter/Ranger/Paladin or fighter multi, if you dual wield you'll be able to get to 5 APR on your CHARNAME using a speed weapon and the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialisation. In this case you're often better off using Improved Haste to get to 10 APR for the spell duration, and activating Critical Strike to guarantee each attack hits.

This doesn't really apply to Fighter/Clerics though, as there are currently no +APR blunt weapons.

GWW is nice and all, and I usually use it for anyone with 2-handers or using a sword & board. The above tactic gives you a far longer duration though, and allows you to use HLAs for other purposes.

Tzampapaizeis

thx for the answers.... 1 last question if some1 can tell me....improved haste last based on lvl or based on caster lvl? meaning a rogue with use anything will have the same duration as a mage?

Lord_Tansheron

The duration is based on the level of the caster, up to a maximum of lvl 20. It doesn't matter who cast it and how, just that they did. Note: if you are casting it with a dual class, the caster level will be the level of the class that could actually cast the spell (i.e. usually the mage). I am uncertain how it works for Mage->Thief dual classes if you cast it from a scroll via UAI.

Corvino

Caster level from scrolls is pegged at 6 regardless of who uses the scroll in BG:EE at the moment, I can't be sure about BG2:EE at the though.

Edit: Try it out with a magic missile scroll - you should get 3 regardless of your level.

Edit 2: @Jalily has actually compiled a very useful list of caster level for each spell scroll:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/251433/#Comment_251433

Lord_Tansheron

@Corvino: An excellent point, thanks. I've been playing with mods too long... I think it was BGTweaks (?) that made scrolls cast = caster level, I completely forgot that this wasn't the default state. It's been well over 10 years since I played without mods...

Durenas

What about Greater Whirlwind + Critical Strike? If it doubles the number of rounds you do, does that mean that Critical Strike only lasts half as long as I've always assumed? I usually combine these two abilities to gain 10 attacks, all criticals in one round.

Corvino

GWW and Critical Strike are both only 1 round in duration, and you can only activate 1 per round unless you have Improved Alacrity active.

enqenq

Lord_Tansheron said:

If you want to get the most out of WW, unequip your offhand for the duration.

Do you really enjoy playing like that?

Lord_Tansheron

Yes. I enjoy games as puzzles of efficiency, and I make sure they are configured as to provide an adequate challenge. My way of playing is not for everyone, but I find it quite satisfying :P

ryuken87

Depends what the offhand weapon is, if it's Crom of the Equaliser for example then it might be better to keep it.

Lord_Tansheron

@ryuken87: a valid point. As always, case-by-case math is the best bet. Also depends on what MH you are using, what other buffs are active, what type of enemy you are facing etc.