BG2 Spells in BG1

MilesBeyond

I'm assuming that BG:EE will incorporate all the BG2 spells into BG1. I certainly hope so. This was one of the best parts of Tutu, being able to take those useless new level 1 and 2 spells from BG2 and put them to good use. Spook and Reflect Image are surprisingly good spells to have for a level 1 mage wandering the Sword Coast.

Unfortunately, as I'm sure many discovered as soon as they loaded up Tutu, others can be game-breaking. The most jarring example, in my mind, is Find Familiar, and not even the beasts themselves so much as the HP bonus, which for that point in the game is huge.

I'm wondering if anyone knows how BG:EE is going to integrate this. Because man, it would be a shame to see all those cool new spells stay locked away until Amn, but at the same time, perhaps some of them should be...

The_New_Romance

Don't know, but I would love to try out Reflect Image. I haven't in BG2 because I already got Mirror Image, which of course is better, but getting all the shiny new spells in BG:EE as well would be cool.

Cheesebelly

It would give me a reason to try those low level spells that are available to BG2 that I never tried, like Spook that you mentioned as well as Power World Sleep I believe?

Then again, you hit spells like Melf Minute Meteors on level 5 mage and then things get nasty... as in nastily easy. Those things can kill Sarevok with ease, even though I like the Vampiric touch approach more.

Also, I believe that Chromatic Orb could be overpowered with the Avenger druid. A level 10 avenger is able to cast X number of Chromatic Orbs... with petrifying effect. That is a DEVASTATING spell in Baldur's Gate 1, so powerful that I wouldn't wonder if you could go around happily petrifying late in-game monsters!

With the raised XP cap, I wouldn't wonder mages would hit level 10 too (only 250,000 XP after all)

Loz

The low level spells introduced in BG2 are great fun when used in BG1. A lot of them, like the already mentioned PW: Sleep are very useful, but I don't see many as overpowered.

The few that do have a noticeable impact on game balance such as the totemic druid spirit summons and find familiar are well known and toned down in TuTu etc. I'd say the designers will probably do something similar for EE.

Chromatic5

Will dimension door be in? One of my favorite spells from bg1, mostly just for the fun factor. I was sad to see it go in bg2, and with updating BGEE to use bg2's engine I'm curious to see if dimension door makes it in.

MilesBeyond

@Cheesebelly Yep, Power Word Sleep is another one of those useless-as-crap spells in BG2 that is absolutely amazing in BG1. Its little brother, Sleep, is already possibly the best level 1 spell for the first few chapters and jacking it up can only make things better.

And MMM is another devastating one. As is Chromatic Orb at a higher level... Though that's devastating in BG2 as well. Greater Malison + level 12 Chromatic Orb = Instant death. That's actually how I killed Firkraag back when I was rubbish at the game and he kicked my butt.

MilesBeyond

Chromatic5 said:

Will dimension door be in? One of my favorite spells from bg1, mostly just for the fun factor. I was sad to see it go in bg2, and with updating BGEE to use bg2's engine I'm curious to see if dimension door makes it in.

I agree. It was removed due to "cheese factor" (mostly because if you DD'ed into someone, it would instantly kill them) but if you just cause it to DD beside them, instead, that would sort that out.

I suppose the other issue is getting to unreachable areas, but if you're using DD to try and break the game, you can't really be surprised when, well, you break the game.

Suiboon

Yes some spells should be tweaked because of balance issues. I agree on the familiar issue especially. Since they weren't present in the original BG1 and they provide such a huge bonus to HP straight away at level 1. My solution: make find familiar a scroll only, sold by vendors, and with a level limit. Say, level 7?

On the other hand sleep is, and has always been, stupidly overpowered in the early game and I haven't seen anyone mention it. I think Temple of Elemental Evil and Icewind Dale handled it much better, at least I don't remember it being as overpowered. I can't remember the details though.

On the flip side, there are a bunch of spells that are just plain useless or weak in comparison to other spells of the same level. There is a mod for that though: http://www.gibberlings3.net/spell_rev/

MilesBeyond

@Suiboon

A better solution might just be to have Find Familiar not available anywhere outside of Baldur's Gate. Throwing it in the Candlekeep Libraries or Catacombs might be even better.

IWD handled Sleep by having the enemy wake up as soon as it took damage. So it was still useful for forcing the enemy to fight on your terms, but you couldn't just butcher them without fear as you can in BG