Was Initiative Ever A Factor?

Chippy

I was reading my BG1 manual *wipes tear of nostalgia from eye* and this has always bugged me: what was initiative and did it play it's role?. The manual states that initiative is a random variation on how quickly within the 6 second personal initiatve round any character can use a wepon or cast a spell - the variation adjusting the speed factor for each.

This was never really fully explained. I always assumed that a Kensai would at high levels start to have -speed factor adjustments that would always allow him to act first?. But it always seemed as though mages got their protections in place via contingency (perhaps within the rules) or during the battle.

So my question is in the title really.

paulsifer42

Yeah, it did seem like everyone acted at the same time, regardless of initiative. It may have had a factor, but I never noticed it.

Tanthalas

I remember reading online that initiative actually didn't do anything in BG, but I'm not sure.

FrozenDervish

Initiative places whoever has better to go first.

On the same note though this only applies to the person you are attacking.

Now to the mage thing due to the game engine/limitation mage spells take a full round to cast and are therefore #1 in priority always unless the start casting mid round. Contingincies are activated whenever their criteria are met so they activate immediately. Regardless of round, position, or other factors.

Chippy

Just remembered aswell that as a level 1 Ranger - whie in stealth - I hardly ever missed while attacking in both melee and ranged. I'm pretty certain this isn't a foggy memory, but I always attacked with a dagger for fear of coming out of stealth before the SF 10 of a greatsword. Don't know if that's related.

Aranneas

FrozenDervish said:

Initiative places whoever has better to go first.

On the same note though this only applies to the person you are attacking.

Now to the mage thing due to the game engine/limitation mage spells take a full round to cast and are therefore #1 in priority always unless the start casting mid round. Contingincies are activated whenever their criteria are met so they activate immediately. Regardless of round, position, or other factors.

pretty much has it

if you observe carefully the combat (easiest to see 1v1) you can see the effect of weapon differences (between halberd and dagger, say) but in the end the effect is quite minimal. it doesn't seem to limit the actual number of attacks you get within a round that I've seen, just when your first attack cycle begins

FrozenDervish

Chippy said:

Just remembered aswell that as a level 1 Ranger - whie in stealth - I hardly ever missed while attacking in both melee and ranged. I'm pretty certain this isn't a foggy memory, but I always attacked with a dagger for fear of coming out of stealth before the SF 10 of a greatsword. Don't know if that's related.

Stealth begins the round so a slow weapon does not matter, but the catch is you only get 1 attack from stealth.

And stealth also lowers their AC from dex I do believe so it makes the target easier to hit.

FrozenDervish

Yup the number of APR is based on class, level, weapon, dual wield or not, and spell effects on you.

Aranneas

FrozenDervish said:

Chippy said:

Just remembered aswell that as a level 1 Ranger - whie in stealth - I hardly ever missed while attacking in both melee and ranged. I'm pretty certain this isn't a foggy memory, but I always attacked with a dagger for fear of coming out of stealth before the SF 10 of a greatsword. Don't know if that's related.

Stealth begins the round so a slow weapon does not matter, but the catch is you only get 1 attack from stealth.

And stealth also lowers their AC from dex I do believe so it makes the target easier to hit.

that's 3e. in BG you just get a flat bonus to attack when attacking from stealth (I think +2, it may be +4)

Yup the number of APR is based on class, level, weapon, dual wield or not, and spell effects on you.

right but the way speed factor is explained in the manual seems to indicate it should create a delay between every attack, potentially limiting your max apr. however this is behaviour I have never observed.

Chippy

This is quite insightful, what I should have been clearer about is: if a Kensai gets his speed factor down to zero, does it then go into the minus value to ofset the "variation" that initiative applies?. Which means that speed factor would be fastest at zero, then if two Kensai are dueling with a speed factor of zero each, it's the randomness of the initiative variation (based on DEX or "ability, situation and chance" quoting the manual) that determines who hits first?.

FrozenDervish

Yes, in PnP this should be the case as well in game.

I think if you turn on the more chat log stats option it should show your initiative when you begin the fight, but not sure on this point.

Aranneas

Only in IWD2, which is based on the 3e ruleset. Initiative is never shown in the BG games.

FrozenDervish

Only in IWD2, which is based on the 3e ruleset. Initiative is never shown in the BG games.

Thanks get confused between all the different games.

Aranneas

FrozenDervish said:

Only in IWD2, which is based on the 3e ruleset. Initiative is never shown in the BG games.

Thanks get confused between all the different games.

Believe me when I say I know that feel.