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Mode Request - Limited Saving system

LinkamusLinkamus Member Posts: 220
So I touched on this in another thread, but I figured I'd make an official thread, as I feel it's worthy of its own.

Constant saving and reloading has always been an issue in infinity engine games. To make the player need to be much more careful, and to help introduce a better risk/reward system I would propose the following optional mode:

If playing in said mode, In order for the player to create a permanent save file, they must be in a designated safe area - a town, or inn for example.

If the player is in the wilderness, or in a dungeon, the player cannot create a permanent save file - instead they can only create a temporary one. If you've ever played Majora's Mask, you will easily understand this concept, as it would work in a similar way as the owl statues in MM. When a player saves his or her game in a non-safe area, it forces the player to quit out to the menu. If the player loads that game, it automatically deletes itself. This prevents the player from being able to reload his or her game over and over in a dangerous area, but still allows the player to quit playing and come back later. Again, permanent save files would only be able to be created in designated safe areas.

The only problem I see with this, is that with the current save file system, the player could easily copy/paste their temporary dungeon save files if they wanted to cheat the mode. Should such a mode be created, I'll leave it to the programmers to figure out how to prevent this!



  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    I think that would be good for higher levels of difficulty, not necessarily for a standard difficulty. Heck, for the highest level of difficulty, you could make it like a Roguelike game- you die and the game wipes ALL your saves.

  • Syntia13Syntia13 Member Posts: 514
    ONLY if it's optional mode, unrelated to difficulty settings. If it were to be permanently tied with higher difficulties, I'd throw a fit and proceeded to fight it tooth and nail. It is nobody's business but the player's how often and where he/she saves the game.
    Might be a nice addition for people who like extra challenge (and/or enjoy being bossed around by their sofware ;P ), but it shouldn't at any point be forced on players who don't like it.

  • LinkamusLinkamus Member Posts: 220
    Yes Syntia, it would be its own mode that is not tied to the current difficulty settings.

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    Not sure I can see the need for such a mode. If you enjoy more suspense and having to play carefully, just save less? It's not like the game forces you to save before doing something dangerous, you're free to play it whichever way you enjoy the most.

    Also playing such a mode, if it existed, only to cheat it by going through the hassle of manually copying save files seems so pointless I don't know where to begin.. so not sure it would even need preventing.

  • EleosEleos Member Posts: 48
    edited August 2012
    Shin said:

    Not sure I can see the need for such a mode. If you enjoy more suspense and having to play carefully, just save less? It's not like the game forces you to save before doing something dangerous, you're free to play it whichever way you enjoy the most.

    The game and the experience one has with it is in many ways defined by the limitations the game puts on the player. This is why there are difficulty choices or, in other games, 'hardcore' modes. Letting the player choose those limitations will aid in the overall experience.

    What OP has proposed is just a step below hardcore mode. To add to what he said I think there should be two new game modes added as options when a player starts a new game.

    1: Exactly what OP has suggested. This is a great idea that would add a significant amount of immersion and the sense of danger in the wilderness.

    2: Add a hardcore mode that does what OP suggests, that also locks difficulty to the option originally set by the player and also wipes all saves when death occurs.

  • LinkamusLinkamus Member Posts: 220
    Shin - knowing that you *can* reload if you so choose takes away the need to be careful, and the actual intensity this mode would create. Sure you can choose to limit yourself by not reloading in dungeons, but it is a fake mechanic that you are imposing upon yourself as a player. To me there is a big difference between the game imposing the mechanic, and the player imposing the mechanic. I much prefer the game imposing the mechanic

    I agree with everything Eleos said. And I also think that your second option should really be the only one as far as this mode is concerned. The mode would be pointless if you could just switch it to super easy whenever you wanted.

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    @Elos @Linkamus Honestly I don't quite see the difference. If you choose to quicksave and reload a lot, then as far as I can tell it's because that's the way you like playing the game, and vice versa. Knowing that you can reload if you so choose would only take away the need to be careful if you in fact actually *want* to be able to reload.
    Like in my games for example, I usually choose not to equip Carsomyr because I feel it makes some things too easy. I guess this choice could be enforced by a mod that removes the item from the game altogether, but I just don't see how the game imposing that limit instead of me would make it any different.

    The only way I can understand your point of view is attempting to look at the game as something like a rough diet or unforgiving exercise regime, i.e. something you don't really *want* to do, but feel would be good for you in the long run.. but that seems like a strange way to approach a game.

  • LinkamusLinkamus Member Posts: 220
    One of the reason I play games is for the challenge, and the feeling of accomplishment I get when I do something difficult. This feeling of accomplishment is much more satisfying if the game imposed the difficulty, and not myself.

    Think about Diablo's Hardcore mode. How much cooler is it to have a max level Hardcore character rather than a max level normal character? Even if you leveled a normal character to max level without dying, there is no game mechanic to recognize this accomplishment. Having a Hardcore mode in diablo is something hard-coded, and proves you accomplished the impossible!

    Think about how many people would be pissed if they took Diablo's Hardcore mode out of the game and said "Just roll a normal character, and impose the rule on yourself - just delete your character if you die."

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,496
    If you have to have a rule that forces your behaviour into something you wouldn't do if you had the choice, perhaps you don't actually want that choice or like the game enough to play it that way (couldn't think of an unpatronising way of saying that).

    I can think of games I've loved where I've put myself through simulated hardship to enhance the experience (like nerd S&M? where am I going with this?) It was no problem doing that by choice, in fact it wasn't an issue.

    I've tried saving restrictions once in a game I didn't particularly like, Diablo 3 (hardcore mode) I'm still not dead, but I'm still bored! and I still prefer to play it so that I can reload because I would find repeating content to be too much of a chore.

  • LinkamusLinkamus Member Posts: 220
    edited August 2012
    It's all about accomplishment with representation. Something as simple as a message at the end that said - "Hurray! You beat it on hardcore mode!" Is enough for me haha.

    I think it may be an OCD trait that I have, but I just feel like if the game doesn't restrict me from doing something (unless it's an exploit) then I will take advantage of it, even if I feel I'm not being challenged enough. Imposing harder rules on myself just feels fake and artificial, and not official. I hate it.

    Edit: I think this is why I avoid mods too - I feel like what I play and experience has to be "official". Hell I just barely installed ascension for the first time because I just found out it was made by one of the lead designers of ToB. Which in my mind makes it somewhat official.

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    Actually I did feel much the same about Diablo's hardcore mode as there's no technical difference between reaching max level as softcore with 0 deaths and reaching max level as hardcore - and thus not really any difference in coolness between them that I can see.
    One non-technical difference is that Diablo to a much greater degree is connected to a community of comparison, achievements etc, with people keeping track of who did what first. As there is no statistics counter for number of deaths, that gives hardcore mode a point as it enables you to make sure someone who claimed to beat the game without dying and wants recognition for it actually did so.
    If they played it solely for their own sake, I can't see how game-mechanical hardcore or self-imposed hardcore would be different.

  • LinkamusLinkamus Member Posts: 220
    Heh, we'll just have to agree to disagree Shin. I respect your opinion though.

  • CrawleyCrawley Member Posts: 74
    I was thinking about it actually and thought. What I'd was thinking about was some kind of an ability with a daily limit that would make a save. Still, there would be too much complications with that.

    To be honest, as a non-power gamer I was always OK with constant saving. What really pained me was the RPG element, where one could save before conversation and then check out different options. Still, if one would like to get rid of it, the game would have to save itself in real time (of course this would not work during battles).

    There is also one more thing that would make the game horribly frustrating - if you'll die eg inside Firkraag's dungeon or the game would crash, you'd have to go all the way back through all the battles etc.

    BTW, while we are discussing this, I strongly believe that selecting character class should be placed AFTER stats roll.

  • psyactpsyact Member Posts: 81
    Just posted another thread about this, but I'd love a "hardcore mode" of sorts. Diablo's hardcore mode was never really interesting to me until Diablo III, but now that I've thought about it, it adds a new element to the game that is otherwise fairly repetitive and boring. My only complaint is that if I spend months getting my HC character up to a level worthy of acknowledgement, and then the server has a hiccup, my character dies through no fault of my own.

    The mode in this game would have to combat that somehow -- so if the game crashed, you didn't simply lose your progress.

  • LinkamusLinkamus Member Posts: 220
    That's what the permanent saves in the designated "Safe Areas" would be for. If the game crashes in the middle of a dungeon you are just out of luck.

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