Slings Get Bonuses from DEX and STR

Emptiness

Characters that qualify for THAC0 and Damage adjustments from both DEX and STR who use a sling receive both those bonuses. My understanding is that most ranged weapons should only receive a THAC0 adjustment from DEX; the exception being some heavy ranged weapons like throwing axes that would receive a THAC0 and Damage adjustment from STR, but no bonus from DEX. I have an Assassin with 19 STR and 18 DEX who is getting a total of -5 THAC0 and +7 damage, which is really great but also seems very wrong.

Out of curiosity I checked BGI, and this character was getting -2 THAC0 (from DEX) and +7 damage (from STR). This also seems odd, since other ranged weapons like arrows, darts, and throwing daggers do not get a damage bonus from STR - but at least it is more reasonable in that only one stat bonus is being applied to THAC0.

Foune

This might be a new intended change, I remember a sling from BG2 which allowed you to use strength as a thaco and dmg mod.

DinsdalePiranha

edit: misunderstood the original post, ignore it

Drayen

I can see archers using slings being powerhouses now... lol

TJ_Hooker

AFAIK:
-Ranged weapons should only gain THAC0 bonuses from dexterity (never from strength)
-In the EE's slings and throwing axes/daggers/hammers are supposed to receive bonus damage from strength. All other ranged weapons types do not.

So yeah, this definitely looks like a bug (the first part that is, where it looks like you're getting additional bonuses to THAC0 from strength).

Jalily

Slings intentionally get Strength damage bonuses in BGII:EE.

Mungri

Drayen said:

I can see archers using slings being powerhouses now... lol

Archers can only put 2 points into slings, so its not as attractive as grandmastered bows or crossbows.

However you can dual class a level 9 Archer to a Cleric and +3 damage and hit bonus, called shot, and druid spells added on top of a regular Cleric, but this is actually still weaker than making a plain Ranger and dualing to a Cleric because such a character gets huge melee bonuses with Ironskins and other divine buffs.

Without the Str bonus, slings would be rubbish compared to every other ranged weapon in the game.

Emptiness

Jalily said:

Slings intentionally get Strength damage bonuses in BGII:EE.

Is it also intentional that in BG:EE they receive a THAC0 bonus from DEX but in BGII:EE they receive a THAC0 bonus from both STR and DEX?

Serpion

Jalily said:

Slings intentionally get Strength damage bonuses in BGII:EE.

Are you sure? Some special sling exists in original BG2:
Sling of Seeking +2: +2 THACO, add strength bonus to damage.

According description all other sling should NOT add strength bonus to sling, in other way that description looks weird.

Jalily

It's an intentional EE change; the Sling of Seeking's ability is now unlimited +1 bullets.

Ironmancal2131

It makes the Sling of Everard even more badass! With 19 STR and DEX, that's a THAC0 bonus of 11!

Mathsorcerer

Physics tells us that slings should gain the benefit from strength while bows do not. All the energy transferred to the arrow comes from the tension in the bow and the string; this has nothing to do with your physical strength (other than that required to draw the bow). Slings, on the other hand, obtain their energy from your arm acting as a lever so a stronger person should be able to fire the bullet with more force.

Castorp

Adding the strength bonus to damages makes complete sense.
But it doesn't explain why the strength bonus should be added to THAC0 too.

Beamdog's changes to ranged weapons seem completely random to me...
They make archers and bows weaker (and actually almost useless in BG2) and fighters and slings even more deadly. I really fail to understand the logic at play here.

Mathsorcerer

Thac0 would in real life--presuming that real life has any bearing on a fantasy game--be a combination of physical strength, combat skill, and the magic inherent to an enchanted weapon.

I wouldn't discount bows or archers at all. Tansheron's Bow in the hands of an archer with +2 arrows, arrows of biting, acid arrows, or arrows of piercing can be quite deadly.

Aranthys

The Strength THACO bonus isn't applied to the roll.
It's just a cosmetic issue in the character sheet, this bug was already present in the 1.2 BG:EE beta but couldn't be fixed before the patch was released (If i m not mistaken)

Castorp

"

Mathsorcerer said:

Thac0 would in real life--presuming that real life has any bearing on a fantasy game--be a combination of physical strength, combat skill, and the magic inherent to an enchanted weapon.

Yes, with melee weapons.
With ranged weapons, accuracy matters. Hence, a dexterity bonus to THAC0.

I don't see the need the add strength to the equation.

By the way, how do crossbows behave in BG2:EE? Is the enchantment bonus also not applied to damage?

Mungri

Even with this change, slings are still weaker than bows.

Castorp

Mungri said:

Even with this change, slings are still weaker than bows.

Take a look at Illydth post in this thread:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/24538/bug-nerfed-arrows#latest

Mungri

That thread doesn't matter, I've already tested this:

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/24400/the-super-backline-archer-cleric#latest

Str bonus being applied to slings doesn't make them as powerful as bows, it only brings them close. But then I was comparing to an elf archer.

The only issue would be if a bow or arrows bonus damages are not applying to hits, which would be a bug.

Slings also get far fewer attacks per round than bows do. There's absolutely nothing they can achieve that can even compare to an Archer with a bow, 5 attacks per round plus GWW / Critical Strikes / Smite is a wonder to behold.

Castorp

Mungri said:

=
The only issue would be if a bow or arrows bonus damages are not applying to hits, which would be a bug.

They don't, and it isn't a bug, but a choice by the devs.

And if logic applies, slings shouldn't "come close" to be as powerful as bows. Medieval warfare is a case in point.

Mathsorcerer

Castorp said:

By the way, how do crossbows behave in BG2:EE? Is the enchantment bonus also not applied to damage?

It depends upon the bow in question. A generic crossbow adds to damage but most of the enchanted bows also add a thac0 bonus, as well.

Earlier I mentioned Tansheron's Bow when it should have been Tuigan Bow, the one which gives you 3 attacks per round, not counting fighter/archer level or specialization.