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Stalker Kit

gmazcagmazca Member Posts: 60
edited August 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
I just had a quick question. How viable will the Stalker kit be for Rangers in BGEE? You don't get the actual backstab bonus until level 9 and the mage spells until level 12. Sure you get the hide in shadows boost but that's not enough to justify going through BGEE with a Stalker not living up to most of his potential. He would also have to give up metal armors which further makes this class less than optimal for BGEE. Does anyone know if anything is being done to address this kind of balancing?

Comments

  • MillardkillmooreMillardkillmoore Member Posts: 150
    Some of these kits and classes were balanced for the mid-to-high levels of SoA. Might be best to lower the levels those bonuses. Although, isn't the XP cap being raised? If it is, it's possible we'll actually reach those levels in BG1. If not, something should be done about the stalker as well as others that don't start gaining real power until the teens like the monk, shapeshifter, and bounty hunter.
  • raclariuraclariu Member Posts: 56
    Wondering the same for the monk, cuz i would like to get a monk started, but he's so damn fragile at start.
  • gmazcagmazca Member Posts: 60
    edited August 2012
    recklessheart said:

    I don't think anything should be done to combat this. A kit is supposed to have drawbacks as well as benefits. If you take this stance, then shouldn't a level 1 Mage be allowed to cast fireball to keep him/her eligible as a useful companion?
    The Stalker may not recieve it's benefits early on, but it should only make recieving them at a later stage more rewarding. It's all part of the fun and part of the challenge. It isn't as though playing a Stalker in BG:EE will make it impossible for you to win, after all! :)

    I suppose you do have a point there. It is kind of sad that you will have to wait until BG2EE to have your most useful skills but I suppose that might make the game all the more challenging.


  • ChippyChippy Member Posts: 241
    The problem I had with the Ranger and each kit was that there was nothing (roleplaying wise) that really seperated them from other classes, and - munchkin wise - I was better off as dual/multi-class fighter/thief. I stayed with the class throughout, and really felt that at the end of TOB that a Stalker was missing out on being as distinct as other classes.

    If BG:EE were to introduce tracking, worthwhile animal empathy, decent level 1-3 spells, and an animal companion that didn't fail a save vs fear against Boo, I might take interest again.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    No animal companion in the whole sword coast could make a save vs moral failure against boo!!!!
  • jones0901jones0901 Member Posts: 51
    The thing about it, even though you don't have the classes main perks in bgee, you still going to start w 2 stars in dual wield, plus being able to hit well and gain good hp on lvl up (assuming a good con score)..you will be fine. Maybe not up to full strength but definitely able to hit well....use him/her as a skirmisher. Start with arrows and pick up the first man through with melee
  • e3r4t5yne3r4t5yn Member Posts: 42
    edited August 2012
    stalker was designed for BG2 exp level and seems to be useless in low exp level cases which BG1 is.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Stalkers are stealthier, and still have all the normal benefits of being a Ranger. I don't see the problem.
  • XosmiXosmi Member Posts: 7
    edited January 2013
    Schneidend said:

    Stalkers are stealthier, and still have all the normal benefits of being a Ranger. I don't see the problem.

    This. even in bg1 stalkers are just rangers with benefits, being limited to studded leather armors is not all that big of a problem either, since it actually allows you to use the hide in shadows skill. (same for pure rangers, they can wear full plate, but their stealth ability get's greyed out when wearing it.)

    Also, once you reach nashkell you only have to travel south to the Fire leaf mountains to find sendai (no relation to his namesake in ToB :p) with his goons - fighting them will give you a Studded Leather Armor +2 pretty early in the game.

    Whenever i play a ranger, i plan on dualing him to a cleric, this has the advantage in BG2 of getting both druid and cleric spells (wich is kind of cheesy, but it really helps the class stand on it's own, i'd be sad to see this fixed in BG2:EE)
    I've never done this with a stalker (the kit not being available in vanilla bg1 and my dislike for tutu) but since you can dualclass out of a kit, just not into one, there's no reason why it should not work.

    I would dual at either lvl 8 or lvl 12, depending on if i want access to Haste/Protection From Normal Missiles/Minor Spell Deflection, and how quick i could level as a cleric to get my ranger skills back.

    The backstab the stalker gets would not have that much appeal, the only weapons available to you with wich you can backstab after dualling would be clubs or staffs, and with the ranger's proficiencies you will want to dualwield, pretty much leaving clubs - and we all know how crap clubs are in vanila bg2.
    I suppose you could allways carry around ths staff of striking/staff of the ram in bg1 & 2 respectively and use that for backstabbing purposes, then switching back to a hammer/flail combo.
  • PhilhelmPhilhelm Member Posts: 473
    The Stalker's backstabs starts off at x2 damage at level 1. The kit description was in error and it looks like it was fixed. I just rolled up a Stalker to confirm this, and you do indeed start with a x2 backstab at level 1.
  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
    Stalkers are amazing

    My first play through was with an Elven Stalker. Dual wield Varscona and the Dagger of Venom with boots of speed. 18/00 strength and 19 dex

    Stealth + Backstab is simply amazing. Their glaring weakness is AC but with Boots of Speed you have huge control over positioning and have superb scouting abilities. One of my favorite kits for sure, Valygar is also one of the coolest NPC's ever :)
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I just rolled a stalker to dual to cleric but plan to dual early (level 3 maybe) since this is just planned as a BG:EE character not necessarily BG2EE - was thinking the stealth/dual weild + X2 backstabs would be worth it but forgot all about the limitation of BStab to clubs and staff (went mace/hammer) so I'm probably going to re-roll a straight ranger to dual instead and forget the stealth/BS in favor of dual weilding mace/hammer in full plate.

    That said I think a straight stalker dual weilding pointy things might be a fun BGEE run... then change out the weapon specs at the start of BG2 and dual to cleric at level 12 maybe.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Seeing as how this thread is from August, I doubt many of the people posting in it are bothering to check back in...
  • XosmiXosmi Member Posts: 7
    Madhax said:

    Seeing as how this thread is from August, I doubt many of the people posting in it are bothering to check back in...

    Even if they don't, the information will be here and just a forum search away if anyone ever has the same question.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Xosmi said:

    even in bg1 stalkers are just rangers with benefits, being limited to studded leather armors is not all that big of a problem either, since it actually allows you to use the hide in shadows skill. (same for pure rangers, they can wear full plate, but their stealth ability get's greyed out when wearing it.)

    Drizzt's Armor (which is Chain Mail) is best for Rangers though 'cause you can still Stealth with it equipped. The studded leather drawback is actually pretty significant for BG1, in my eyes.
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    edited January 2013
    @xosmi Those are some pretty horrible levels to dual. If you're going all the way to 12 you may as well go to 13 and get the 1/2 attack and I don't see what 8 has over 7. I wouldn't do it with a Stalker either as you miss heavy armour and don't get his backstab multiplier up that high.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    8 is x3 BS. They cap out at x4 so you aren't really missing much...on the other hand, Clerics are only a little behind thieves level-wise, so hitting 14 cleric for a 13 ranger dual isn't hard at all.

    Also clubs and staves can both Backstab, and staves are actually the best weapons in the game to do so (Staff of striking in BG1, though staff mace and staff spear make good non-charge based BS weapons (and yes you can BS with them, I double checked). Staff mace has the benefit of being 1 handed so you can still wail on the enemy Dual-wielding after the backstab with a reasonable number of attacks if you can't hit and fade or it just isn't worth it for what's left...or the Staff spear has the same minimum and slightly higher maximum, but is two-handed. Or you could always use:

    Chanserv's Fish
    Those who claim something is better than a slap in the face with a wet fish never took a frozen fish to the noggin. This hefty halibut packs a wallop with a chill worthy of the North Wind.

    STATISTICS:

    THAC0: +2
    Damage: 1d6+2, +1d4 cold damage
    Damage type: Crushing
    Speed Factor: 4
    Proficiency Type: Club
    Type: One-handed
    Requires:
    5 Strength

    Weight: 3

    hahaha, the extra elemental damage helps off-set those Stoneskin problems.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    can't stalkers not dual class? I thought only beastmasters could dual class for some reason?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    The "x2 at level 9" text had the same problem as the thief's Backstab table; it was listing the additional damage multiplier, not the total multiplier. So a stalker would get an additional x2 damage, in addition to the base damage.

    The mechanics haven't changed, but the text has been updated to reflect the way the mechanics operate.
  • NecroblivionNecroblivion Member Posts: 210
    Stalker with staff dualed to cleric is really awesome. There're really great Staves in the game which allow you to backstab really hard. Also -to me- it feels like a shadow druid. Stealthy, powerful, with great magic as backup.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Quartz said:

    Xosmi said:

    even in bg1 stalkers are just rangers with benefits, being limited to studded leather armors is not all that big of a problem either, since it actually allows you to use the hide in shadows skill. (same for pure rangers, they can wear full plate, but their stealth ability get's greyed out when wearing it.)

    Drizzt's Armor (which is Chain Mail) is best for Rangers though 'cause you can still Stealth with it equipped. The studded leather drawback is actually pretty significant for BG1, in my eyes.
    What kind of jerkface ranger would kill Drizzt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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